Throw Down! MS3 260whp 300wtq

[ZooZoom]

no joking.

went to a Dyno Day with some buddies from my Subaru period. mostly Legacies and WRX/STIs running. I tossed up my essentially stock Speed3 about midday and, needless to say, it got a boat load of attention!

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/BOXRPWR/YimiDynoplot_July2107-1.jpg


performance mods only ETS 3.25" TMIC and K&N panel filter
stock intake box, stock exhaust
other mods are brakes/suspension related only

I can tell you a bunch of Suby guys are talking about the Speed3 right now.....and probably thinking about going to a Mazda dealership for a test drive!

ZOOM ZOOM!!! (dance)

[uncletime]

with just the tmic upgrade huh? wow not bad. what gear did they run it in. i know there was a discussion about which one it should be run in.

[ebmp5]

DAYUM!!! that is tight.

[Ferdball]

I don't know how you get so much power. I remember you pulled 5HP more than us even with CAI's on.

[ZooZoom]

I honestly believe it comes from the fact that I run my Speed3 hard. I regularly hit 120-140mph. virtually daily (on a closed road course, of course).

I've taken it to the track 3 times in 3 months. I gotta believe that the ECU adapts to the driving style.

Plus I just turned 16k miles on the odometer. So the engine is very well broken in.

[ZooZoom]

what gear did they run it in. i know there was a discussion about which one it should be run in.


4th gear pulls

[Ferdball]

I regularly hit 120-140mph. virtually daily (on a closed road course, of course).

I need access to you fictitious road course!

[Karma_hunden]

hate to rain on your parade but i think that dyno might be fcked up...


unless you got the numbers of a stock STi down, or at least the ones of one of your friend's with mods listed so we can verify/compare.

dont mean to sound like a jerk, but those are big numbers for the mods you got. just curious.

[ZooZoom]

hate to rain on your parade but i think that dyno might be fcked up...


unless you got the numbers of a stock STi down, or at least the ones of one of your friend's with mods listed so we can verify/compare.

dont mean to sound like a jerk, but those are big numbers for the mods you got. just curious.


that's a ballsy claim from the other side of the country, my friend.

the guy from Yimi Motorsports said he'd post up the dyno plots on Monday. mine is a color scan of the print they gave me.

to give you some idea that this dyno is no "queen", a Subaru dealer brought a 2008 Legacy 3.0R that recent passed 500 miles driving (so the engine was reasonably broken-in).

he threw it up on the dyno and got a measly 172 whp / 154 wtq. that's from a car that claims 250/250.

my car ran immediately after that.

I do recall my buddy Merv with a 4WD Legacy GT Wagon running a 18G turbo setup with a Perrin TMIC put down 330 whp / 335 wtq

[laloosh]

I find it odd that your car has a perfect a/f ratio throughout the band

[ophten]

What was the temperature and humidity? I did my pulls at 94 degrees with 27 humidity but even with the correcting factor, I'm not getting anywhere near that sort of power.

Did they have some sort of special cooling assembly for the TMIC? On the stock TMIC, with a small fan we were seeing huge powerlosses between pulls. This shop was geared towards cooling FMICs, but even so I would have expected more loss even with a custom assembly to show on yours if they were run back to back.

What were their correction factors set at? Is this Dyno "tuned" in any other ways?

Your powerband looks ridiculous compared to my own.

Here's my first pull from earlier this month (much more in line with what I've seen people pulling):
http://rasterburn.org/~eddy/20070709.jpg

[SharkDiver]

hate to rain on your parade but i think that dyno might be fcked up...


unless you got the numbers of a stock STi down, or at least the ones of one of your friend's with mods listed so we can verify/compare.

dont mean to sound like a jerk, but those are big numbers for the mods you got. just curious.

I agree..Something is not right.Those numbers are a bit to high.300lb. torque on a stock engine isnt normal for our cars.That dyno is showing inflated #s or there something that was done on this dyno run that we dont know about.

[speedi3]

What does the SAE smoothing mean? Yours says 5. Mine said 1. the one above says 3.

I have a few more mods... Drive on the interstate regularly at 120ish... my A/f was the pits at 4k. I hope its true but seems off in comparison to other dynos...

[ophten]

What does the SAE smoothing mean? Yours says 5. Mine said 1. the one above says 3.


Its just a setting in the Dynojet software which lets you smooth out your curves a bit after selecting your correction factor (SAE, DIN, EEC, STD, JIS).

The smoothing shouldn't have a large impact on your numbers, for instance with smoothing set at 0 on mine I get max power of 222.81 and torque of 230.75 compared to a smoothing of 5 with 221.87 and 230.47. The smoothing is just used to smooth over your peaks and valleys.

I wonder what his uncorrected numbers were? Mine were 215/223

[johnnyB5646]

So driving really fast will help build more hp... even if it isn't true, you don't have to tell me twice. I love how even though the results are posted people still call BS. Even if some tricks were involved I'm impressed and am ordering a K&N filter NOW!

[ZooZoom]

I wonder what his uncorrected numbers were? Mine were 215/223

I can ask for the uncorrected dyno plot on Monday.

To give you some idea of the "honesty" of this dyno, my 3rd & 4th pulls dropped noticably. I lost 20 hp & almost 30 tq due to heat soak on the dyno even with the bigger TMIC. But that shop had only two small fans to move air over the car. And I chose to do it with the hood closed trying to blow the fan air into the grill. But it wasn't close to real world conditions of traveling well over 100 mph.

I don't want to argue about it. Trust it, don't trust it. I don't care.

I do know that my Speed3 is running sharp and it kicked ass on several RX-7s and RX-8s at the Mazdafest two weeks ago. I've got the vids to prove it. :D

[ophten]

Not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to find out why my speed3 is so craptacular in comparison ;-)

You should ask your shop to give you the DRFs. You can download a demo version of WinPEP7 and change formatting/scale/unit measurements and a bunch of other options. It'll allow you to post your results from multiple upgrades side by side regardless of when they were taken. I'm actually quite surprised they didn't just email you your DRFs as it was, they're quite small.

I'd be interested to know if they've setup anything special with their dyno system, I haven't a clue how one is tuned so I don't know what options are even available. If so, I'd like to compare those tuning options to Protech Performance here in Austin to see if that's what's causing the descrepancy.

[ZooZoom]

the guy that works at Yimi and ran the dyno yesterday says he thinks only one other car all day was stock......a EVO IX SE. the dyno plots are on the computer at the shop so he can't e-mail me anything today. he's going to give me an uncorrected plot for my Speed3 but says that the Dynojet doesn't have many "fudge factors" that can be reset like some other dyno brands (Mustang, DynoDynamics etc.) and the SAE correction is a preset compensation for ambient conditions (temp/humidity) and elevation. The shop is at 1,000 ft. sea level. So he said that factor is low, maybe 10 hp.

He didn't recall the full numbers for the stock EVO except it put down around 250 whp.

I can't fully explain why my Speed3 seems to have a "hot" ECU. My AFRs were much better this time around compared to when I dyno'd it about a month after buying it. I do run 100 octane race gas but only on track days. Its been 2 weeks and at least 3 tanks full of Cal 91 octane pump gas since then. Of course, I only had Shell 91 pump gas in the car yesterday.

all that I know is that I'm a very happy camper and my Speed3 earned a heck of a lot of respect from my Suby pals yesterday! (cabpatch)

[ZooZoom]

to give you some comparisons, here's what I did see/do know from yesterday running on the same day/dyno obviously:

05 Legacy GT Wagon, 5MT (modded with 18G turbo and Perrin TMIC, AP Protuned) 330 whp / 335 wtq
05 Legacy GT Sedan, 5MT (catless UP, catted dp, stock turbo, AP Stg 1 map) 230 whp / 240 wtq
05 Legacy GT Sedan, 5MT (MR headers/up, catless dp, cbe, stock turbo, AP Stg 2 map) 260 whp / 315 wtq
08 Legacy 3.0R Auto (only 500 miles on odometer) 170 whp / 165 wtq yeah it got laughed at pretty badly
97 Volvo 940Turbo (running open exhaust disconnected at the DP, not sure of mods) 190 whp / 200 wtq

Here's a quote from Paul who ran Yimi's dyno on Saturday, "A stock STi puts down anywhere from 245-255 whp our dyno. A stock Evo 9 ran yesterday and put down about 250whp. In very similar heat a couple of days ago, marcocb8's stage 2 LGT (catted with stock catback) did 240whp on the Cobb map and 255whp on a custom Protuned map. A bone-stock 05 LGT is around 210 whp."

[Karma_hunden]

hm, interesting. If I may add, a stock EVO dynos 225-235whp (up to 245 being possible being one of those factory freaks..). I say that because I used to work for an STI/EVO workshop. Those were the numbers they put down. So that dyno must be 15 digits off the charts. So you should have what ya have minus 15 as a estimate, which is quite impressive and still kick ass. I bet you will give those subies/evos a run for their money. Congrats nonetheless!

there's only one way to find out. Go to the track :D

[ZooZoom]

there's only one way to find out. Go to the track :D

I've been to the track 3 times in about two months. I dare say that I've got more track miles than any other Speed3 in the country! going again in two weeks (naughty)

but if you mean the 1/4-mile strip, that's not my cup of tea. Besides, the Speed3 is a byotch to launch hard. I much prefer "real" tracks where I can open it up for miles on end without fear of cops.

[laloosh]

you perfer real track but yet do 120-140 regulary on streets? Am i reading this right lol. Anyway as i said before, the power you are making is because of your a/f ratio. Why its perfect? Who knows. You posted a high dyno for your car, did u expect anything else but doubt. Go down to the 1/4 track do 3 runs or whatever u get, with those kinds of numbers you should be easily in the 103-105 range mph. If your in the 99-101 range, than u got a bogus dyno

[CaSHMeRe]

what type of dyno was it ?

Mustand vs. Dynopak's are wayyyyyy different.

Dynopaks are the most acurate in my opinion !

[Karma_hunden]

yeah. go to the 1/4 mile. Even if you hate it, do it once to see the results. as laloosh said.

[ZooZoom]

what type of dyno was it ?

Mustand vs. Dynopak's are wayyyyyy different.

Dynopaks are the most acurate in my opinion !


DynoJet. look at the title on the plot. (crazy)

[pisadong]

Hi guys, this is Paul L. from Yimi Sport Tuning. I dynoed ZooZoom's car as well as a bunch of others this past Saturday. We usually deal with Subaru's and Evo's, but since I'm actually a former Mazda6 owner, so I figured I check in here.

Anyways, ZooZoom's car was certainly very impressive. I really cannot explain why his car did as well as it did on the first 2 runs. 255-260 whp and 300wtq was well beyond what I would have expected to see out of that car. A typical stock Evo or STi puts down about 245whp on our Dynojet, so for ZooZoom's car to exceed that with nothing more than a TMIC upgrade was very surprising. The car was warmed up prior to the run to get the fluids up to temperature, and we sprayed down the TMIC and radiator with water to help keep them as cool as possible during the run. I made all the runs in 4th gear and with the hood closed. I will note as ZooZoom did, that the 3rd run (done after a 5 minute cool down with the engine off) dropped off significantly in both whp and wtq. Torque in particular fell off pretty dramatically.

If I were a betting man, I'd say that the operating conditions for the first 2 runs were optimal for the ECU to supply all the timing advance and boost allowed in the maps. The subsequent runs probably had coolant temps and/or air intake temps higher than a threshold point where the correction tables in the ECU calls for boost and/or timing to be pulled. Judging from the big loss of torque we saw on later runs, I'd say that the ECU trimmed back the wastegate duty cycles to reduce the amount of boost. I did also put my hand on the ETS TMIC after the last run, as I was wondering if the IC was heatsoaked and remarkably the portion closest to the throttle body was still cool to the touch, so I don't think that high manifold air charge temps (and the usual resultant detonation/timing pulls) caused the reduction in power on the last runs.

One last note that I feel should be addressed is that by nature Dynojets are pretty dang consistent from unit to unit. They calculate power from acceleration of a known mass (the rollers). There are no user definable variables such as you will find on a Mustang dyno, Dynapak, Dyno Dynamics or other dynos out there. What you see is what you get. The only correction factors are the different worldwide industry standards. We use SAE and it compensates for temperature, elevation and humidity differences. In the case of ZooZoom's car, I believe it added 5% to his numbers due to the ambient temps being 100* and the shop being at 1000ft above sea level. Of that 5%, 1% is due to elevation and the other 4% was for the ambient temp.

I'm headed to the shop now, so I'm going to pull the runfiles and the jpg's from all the runs from the dyno computer and send them over to ZooZoom.

[pisadong]

Go down to the 1/4 track do 3 runs or whatever u get, with those kinds of numbers you should be easily in the 103-105 range mph. If your in the 99-101 range, than u got a bogus dyno

I would fully expect ZooZoom's car to trap in the 103+ range with the numbers that he put down, since my personal car is an 05 Subaru Legacy GT that made 255whp/288wtq on the same dyno and I trapped at 100mph. This was at LACR which is one of the slowest tracks in the nation, and my car weighs about 300 lbs more than an MS3.

[pisadong]

I'll drag ZooZoom's butt out to the track so I can see what his car will do! (laugh) If he doesn't want to run it himself, he's more than welcome to toss me the keys and I'll do it for him!:)

[funkyman]

Sorry in me asking roughly howmuch would it cost for a single dyno and anyone know any place in Fort Lauderdale FL area where i can get a Dyno

[ophten]

Sorry in me asking roughly howmuch would it cost for a single dyno and anyone know any place in Fort Lauderdale FL area where i can get a Dyno

I've usually gotten a few pulls without tuning for around $50 bucks.

[pisadong]

I've usually gotten a few pulls without tuning for around $50 bucks.

That is really cheap. The going rate in the SoCal area is $80-$90 for 3 pulls with no tuning. Our group dyno day rate is $60.

BTW, as requested, here are a couple of graphs of ZooZoom's cars. I picked the runs 2 and 3. 1 and 2 were about the same, but I forgot to put in the wideband on run 1, so I figured you guys would want to see the difference in AFR's between a run when the coolant and air temps were decent. Run 3 was after a brief 5 minute cool down, but obviously the ECU saw operating conditions it did not like and ran the car much richer, with less timing and likely with less boost as well (especially in the midrange).

With SAE correction:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/Pisadong/Run2vsRun3SAE.jpg

Uncorrected:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/Pisadong/Run2versusRun3NOcorrection.jpg

For reference, here is a bone stock EVO9:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/Pisadong/stockEVO9.jpg

[Ferdball]

I don't think I've ever seen an MS3 with an A/F ratio above 10 beyond 5k RPM's.

[terbow]

I don't think I've ever seen an MS3 with an A/F ratio above 10 beyond 5k RPM's.

thats mazda for you.

stock my msp hit 9.2 @ 4k lol

[bast525]

Some dynos do read higher than others... no secret there... doesn't mean something is wrong or his numbers are BS. But on one car that I owned and built and dynoed many times (not the MS), I did find that Dynojets were fairly consistent from one to the next.

I'm not surprised at all.... Sport Compact Car mag tested a stock MS3 and got 250 whp and 280 ftlbs, and then tested one with the Mazdaspeed CAI and cat back and made 264 whp and about 300 ftlbs of torque.

I know I've heard of others picking up over 20 hp and 20 ft lbs from the better TMIC. All in all I think his results are completely legitimate and TMIC is definately up there on my list of things to do.

[ZooZoom]

thanks Paul for coming to the board and sharing the uncorrected dyno plots along with your wealth of knowledge.

I'm just very proud and very satisfied to own a virtually stock Speed3 that beats out a stock EVO on the same dyno. Sure, the EVO would get a jump out of the hole in a drag race. But from a roll over 30 mph I dare say that my Speed3 would surprise a few stock EVO and STI guys. Probably not toast them. But just to stay + or - a car length up to triple digit speeds would be a kick in a car that cost $10 grand less. (wow)

[pisadong]

thanks Paul for coming to the board and sharing the uncorrected dyno plots along with your wealth of knowledge.

I'm just very proud and very satisfied to own a virtually stock Speed3 that beats out a stock EVO on the same dyno. Sure, the EVO would get a jump out of the hole in a drag race. But from a roll over 30 mph I dare say that my Speed3 would surprise a few stock EVO and STI guys. Probably not toast them. But just to stay + or - a car length up to triple digit speeds would be a kick in a car that cost $10 grand less. (wow)

No problem Kev, glad to help. You would indeed give any stock Evo or STi a very good run, but you know you'll just be staring at my ever shrinking taillights when I get my motor back in the car and get it fully tuned out (nana)(rofl2)

[ZooZoom]

of that I have no doubt. you Legacy with around 500 whp would give 99.9% of cars on planet earth a beating, at least up to 150 mph when you run out of 5th gear (need to start thinkin 'bout a 6MT swap).

[pisadong]

of that I have no doubt. you Legacy with around 500 whp would give 99.9% of cars on planet earth a beating, at least up to 150 mph when you run out of 5th gear (need to start thinkin 'bout a 6MT swap).

8500 rpm redline on the fully built motor FTW! I just ran the numbers through a calculator and I theoretically have enough gear as is to run 210 mph(hitit) Of course that's not realistic, but the 175 mph a little over 7000 rpm doesn't seem that unreasonable to me... not that there is any kind of road available to me out there for me to test that theory.(wrc)

[speedi3]

PISADONG, Is there something that allow you to keep the wastegate open? Is that Dangerous? What are the risks?

"Judging from the big loss of torque we saw on later runs, I'd say that the ECU trimmed back the wastegate duty cycles to reduce the amount of boost."

The TMIC as I have always stated is one of the best upgrades under $550!!

[pisadong]

PISADONG, Is there something that allow you to keep the wastegate open? Is that Dangerous? What are the risks?

"Judging from the big loss of torque we saw on later runs, I'd say that the ECU trimmed back the wastegate duty cycles to reduce the amount of boost."

The TMIC as I have always stated is one of the best upgrades under $550!!

We did not make any changes to ZooZoom's car. You could in theory bypass the factory boost control system with either an electronic or manual boost controller, but I have no idea if that is safe on an MS3. If the ECU will not add sufficient fuel to compensate for the increases airflow, then you will lean out the air/fuel ratio to unacceptable levels. You will have pinging and detonation which can cause very serious damage.

[Jesse MS3GT]

I prefer my dyno dynamics dyno numbers over inflated dynojets.

Plus the only numbers that matter are the ones at the track.

[the7comeback7ki]

Nice numbers man. A factory beast with an upgraded TMIC rated for 20 hp 20 tq could easily see those numbers on a good day

[pisadong]

I prefer my dyno dynamics dyno numbers over inflated dynojets.

Plus the only numbers that matter are the ones at the track.

Riiiiiight (uhm)(braindead. So your 3150 lbs car, with 222whp from a supposedly low reading dyno trapped 100 mph. My Legacy GT, which weighs 3450 lbs trapped at exactly the same speed at LACR which is a VERY slow track (typically 5000ft DA, and it runs uphill at the end). At that time it made 255whp on the same "generous" dyno that ZooZoom ran on. You are welcome to run the numbers through any of the online quarter mile calculators, but you'll find that your dyno numbers are no where near as "conservative" as you might want to believe, and by the same token the Dynojet at Yimi Sport Tuning is not "inflated"

[knowledge007]

no joking.

went to a Dyno Day with some buddies from my Subaru period. mostly Legacies and WRX/STIs running. I tossed up my essentially stock Speed3 about midday and, needless to say, it got a boat load of attention!

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/BOXRPWR/YimiDynoplot_July2107-1.jpg


performance mods only ETS 3.25" TMIC and K&N panel filter
stock intake box, stock exhaust
other mods are brakes/suspension related only

I can tell you a bunch of Suby guys are talking about the Speed3 right now.....and probably thinking about going to a Mazda dealership for a test drive!

ZOOM ZOOM!!! (dance)

Funny, nice title for this thread considering YOUR MS3 is not ESSENTIALLY STOCK.

[SPEED305]

Funny, nice title for this thread considering YOUR MS3 is not ESSENTIALLY STOCK.

right! i knew it was too good to be true. impressive none the less

[tsunami]

damn guys lay off of the damn dyno and this dyno is better then that... people are so negative... he got a dyno done was pleasently surprised with the numbers and shared them... he even brought the shop owner into the forum to appease the doubters... damn people just take it as what it is and just leave it at that.


some times i feel like a baby sitter.

[ZooZoom]

(enguard)

Yes Sir!

[boost_me]

I've been to the track 3 times in about two months. I dare say that I've got more track miles than any other Speed3 in the country! going again in two weeks (naughty)

but if you mean the 1/4-mile strip, that's not my cup of tea. Besides, the Speed3 is a byotch to launch hard. I much prefer "real" tracks where I can open it up for miles on end without fear of cops.

ok... ive been reading... and reading... and doing some more reading... not to say that your not pulling 300whp 300wft/tq(realisticly)...with the stock turbo...

we got just about the same mods, except the turbo xs test pipe... because thats just what it is when you have a restrictive downpipe, and restrictive exhaust behind it....

but i disagree with your "faster i got, more hp" theory you got going... i've owned a shit load of cars... from just about every hybrid honda motor.. to a turbo 98 M3.. so i'm speaking from experience when i say.....bullshit... you could max out to 155mph everyday till you burn.... well you get my drift..!

oh and yeah...@ what rpms are you launching your car? cause hard is not that way to go... since your at the track every month.... i'm at the track@ englishtown/raceway park n.j EVERY wed. night..

[ZooZoom]

ok... ive been reading... and reading... and doing some more reading... not to say that your not pulling 300whp 300wft/tq(realisticly)...with the stock turbo...

we got just about the same mods, except the turbo xs test pipe... because thats just what it is when you have a restrictive downpipe, and restrictive exhaust behind it....

but i disagree with your "faster i got, more hp" theory you got going... i've owned a shit load of cars... from just about every hybrid honda motor.. to a turbo 98 M3.. so i'm speaking from experience when i say.....bullshit... you could max out to 155mph everyday till you burn.... well you get my drift..!

oh and yeah...@ what rpms are you launching your car? cause hard is not that way to go... since your at the track every month.... i'm at the track@ englishtown/raceway park n.j EVERY wed. night..


wow.......(piss)

for having read it over & over & over again.....you missed lots of points badly.

let me try to address you way-off-base conclusions one at a time:

1. never said 300/300 at the wheels. its 260/300 (read the thread title again) if you choose not to believe the dyno graph or think that its a fake or forgery then be my guest. I suppose the gov't blew up the towers too. (shady)

2. "faster = more hp" what I'm saying is that by regularly driving my MS3 briskly, the ECU tends to learn and adjust to optimize performance. most modern ECUs work this way. I do not claim the car gets any faster TOP-SPEED by running it fast. Its all about how the ECU adapts the 3-D mapping tables. There must be some truth to this or some other related reason that my absolutely stock ECU is running AFRs much better (higher across the rpm range) than a typical Speed3 or when it was dyno'd in the first month.

3. I spend lots of time at the TRACK. A real track. You know the kind with pits, a starting line, turns, hills, straight-aways etc. That's a TRACK. What you are thinking of is called a DRAG STRIP. I don't go to the strip. I much prefer the prolonged excitement and thrills of 20 to 30 minute sessions of hot lapping on a TRACK. Don't really see the fun in a 13-14 sec. sprint.

4. (see 3 above) I don't launch my car. Period. Not necessary when you go to the TRACK.


(chair)

[laloosh]

ok... ive been reading... and reading... and doing some more reading... not to say that your not pulling 300whp 300wft/tq(realisticly)...with the stock turbo...

we got just about the same mods, except the turbo xs test pipe... because thats just what it is when you have a restrictive downpipe, and restrictive exhaust behind it....

but i disagree with your "faster i got, more hp" theory you got going... i've owned a shit load of cars... from just about every hybrid honda motor.. to a turbo 98 M3.. so i'm speaking from experience when i say.....bullshit... you could max out to 155mph everyday till you burn.... well you get my drift..!

oh and yeah...@ what rpms are you launching your car? cause hard is not that way to go... since your at the track every month.... i'm at the track@ englishtown/raceway park n.j EVERY wed. night..


if ure at the track every wed what do u run in ure speed3.

[mspro19]

wow.......(piss)

for having read it over & over & over again.....you missed lots of points badly.

let me try to address you way-off-base conclusions one at a time:

1. never said 300/300 at the wheels. its 260/300 (read the thread title again) if you choose not to believe the dyno graph or think that its a fake or forgery then be my guest. I suppose the gov't blew up the towers too. (shady)

2. "faster = more hp" what I'm saying is that by regularly driving my MS3 briskly, the ECU tends to learn and adjust to optimize performance. most modern ECUs work this way. I do not claim the car gets any faster TOP-SPEED by running it fast. Its all about how the ECU adapts the 3-D mapping tables. There must be some truth to this or some other related reason that my absolutely stock ECU is running AFRs much better (higher across the rpm range) than a typical Speed3 or when it was dyno'd in the first month.

3. I spend lots of time at the TRACK. A real track. You know the kind with pits, a starting line, turns, hills, straight-aways etc. That's a TRACK. What you are thinking of is called a DRAG STRIP. I don't go to the strip. I much prefer the prolonged excitement and thrills of 20 to 30 minute sessions of hot lapping on a TRACK. Don't really see the fun in a 13-14 sec. sprint.

4. (see 3 above) I don't launch my car. Period. Not necessary when you go to the TRACK.


(chair)

Hey man I'm with you on this....full support. I dynoed my car bone stock and pulled a 237/263 in 4th gear and then the 2nd pull was 234/257...heat soak of course...lol. I didn't even post the dyno graph because I knew people would just bash...Guys it's not right...everyone asks for dyno results, then when you get them, all you do is bash people...if your numbers are true then sweet! If you lie then you'll just get walked by a car with those numbers...you only make yourself look stupid if you lie. Anyways man that's a good thing to look foward to. All the mods I have listed below and my car runs like a champ...I need to get mine on the dyno again...

[speedi3]

How do you like the DP? I'm ordering mine tomorrow from Ken. I think that I'm going to leave the CB all stock.

[mspro19]

How do you like the DP? I'm ordering mine tomorrow from Ken. I think that I'm going to leave the CB all stock.

I love my exhaust so much...it's exactly how I wanted it...The DP kicks ass! The extension they give you to fix the CEL works. I got CELs for the first 3 weeks! Then they told me to take out the extension drill the hole out to 13/32 and it's been fine since! I talked to Derrick, but they are really cool there and will help you with whatever you need. He even ask me to keep following up with him to make sure they fixed the problem. I definitely reccomend them.

http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=11879765

http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=11880488

[speedi3]

I love my exhaust so much...it's exactly how I wanted it...The DP kicks ass! The extension they give you to fix the CEL works. I got CELs for the first 3 weeks! Then they told me to take out the extension drill the hole out to 13/32 and it's been fine since! I talked to Derrick, but they are really cool there and will help you with whatever you need. He even ask me to keep following up with him to make sure they fixed the problem. I definitely reccomend them.

http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=11879765

http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=11880488

IC. Well I don't like the fact that you CEL for 3 weeks. I can't have that on my DD BUT i do believe that they have put in some time and effort in development and it will be a nice addition to the current setup. I've talked with Cork for a while and they seem to be hands on... NO REPLACEMENT FOR quality customer service.

I will be able to use my current midpipe so this should be interesting. (eekdance)

[mspro19]

IC. Well I don't like the fact that you CEL for 3 weeks. I can't have that on my DD BUT i do believe that they have put in some time and effort in development and it will be a nice addition to the current setup. I've talked with Cork for a while and they seem to be hands on... NO REPLACEMENT FOR quality customer service.

I will be able to use my current midpipe so this should be interesting. (eekdance)

Well good luck! Oh and the light only came on after like a week of driving...then I reset the battery and it was fine....I just reccomend drilling out the extension first. Talk to derrick at Corksport and tell him you talked to Michael Sprofero about the extension being drilled out and see what his reccomendation is....

[ZooZoom]

Hey man I'm with you on this....full support. ...Guys it's not right...everyone asks for dyno results, then when you get them, all you do is bash people... Anyways man that's a good thing to look foward to. All the mods I have listed below and my car runs like a champ...I need to get mine on the dyno again...


thanks, bro!

I'm planning more mods in the near future. Still deciding if I want to spend the next round of $$$ on lighter wheel/tires or do the exhaust. The GB for a full TBE under $1 grand is pretty tempting.

I will do more dyno runs in the future as the mods go on to allow everyone to see the proof of any gains. That's assuming they believe me. (stooges)

[sanblaster1]

Nice runs bro.

[speedi3]

Well good luck! Oh and the light only came on after like a week of driving...then I reset the battery and it was fine....I just reccomend drilling out the extension first. Talk to derrick at Corksport and tell him you talked to Michael Sprofero about the extension being drilled out and see what his reccomendation is....

Talked to him this am... They all now come with the drilled out extension. (alright) You had one of the first... thanks. Calling Ken now.

[mspro19]

Talked to him this am... They all now come with the drilled out extension. (alright) You had one of the first... thanks. Calling Ken now.


Cool... glad i could help!

[Jesse MS3GT]

Riiiiiight (uhm)(braindead. So your 3150 lbs car, with 222whp from a supposedly low reading dyno trapped 100 mph. My Legacy GT, which weighs 3450 lbs trapped at exactly the same speed at LACR which is a VERY slow track (typically 5000ft DA, and it runs uphill at the end). At that time it made 255whp on the same "generous" dyno that ZooZoom ran on. You are welcome to run the numbers through any of the online quarter mile calculators, but you'll find that your dyno numbers are no where near as "conservative" as you might want to believe, and by the same token the Dynojet at Yimi Sport Tuning is not "inflated"

Quarter mile calculators don't mean shit!

[ZooZoom]

Dyno numbers don't mean shit. 1/4 slips do.


nice to see another advocate of us guys paying for Speed3 dynos and sharing with the MS3 community.





NOT! (fight)

[Ferdball]

Quarter mile calculators don't mean shit. I have a slip to prove my time, I didnt use a "calculator". 85º and 90% humidity will kill most cars 1/4 mile times especially when theyre boosted. Now had I ran a 14.2 on a 60º day with no humidity it would be a different story.

You can even go further and say that 1/4 slips don't mean shit. Sure, dyno's have a lot of factors involved, but so does time slips. Drivers skill, elevation, tires, grip, slope of strip, etc. You could say that the only thing that matters is winning the piston cup. But what really matters? For dyno's, its the change in numbers.

A few months ago, three of us MS3 owners went on the same day to the same dyno and did some pulls. GotNoSpice had a CPE CAI, I had an MS CAI, and ZooZoom had no mods at the time. Spice pulled 235HP, I pulled 240HP and ZooZoom pulled 245HP.

What does that mean? I don't know. But, to me anyway, it mean more that shit. Here is San Diego, I have no track and I have no strip. I do have a dyno for $40.

[ZooZoom]

thanks, Ferdball

by the way......that was on a DynoJet also.

[shift_ms3]

Just to add to the fray, my completely stock dyno sheet of my ms3 with 800 miles.

252 whp with 281 ft/lbs torque.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a315/luvlinze/dyno.jpg

[ZooZoom]

^^^^^^^^^^
Lies! B.S.! Forgery! (loser)

[Ferdball]

^^^^^^^^^^
Lies! B.S.! Forgery! (loser)

And you car wears Firestone rejects! [/sarcasm]

[FRUCTOSE]

252 whp with 281 ft/lbs torque.

Nice to see good #'s on these cars it makes me want to dyno mine before I mod it. I think it's funny when people only care about 1/4 mile times.(ghey)

[Jesse MS3GT]

You can even go further and say that 1/4 slips don't mean shit. Sure, dyno's have a lot of factors involved, but so does time slips. Drivers skill, elevation, tires, grip, slope of strip, etc. You could say that the only thing that matters is winning the piston cup. But what really matters? For dyno's, its the change in numbers.

A few months ago, three of us MS3 owners went on the same day to the same dyno and did some pulls. GotNoSpice had a CPE CAI, I had an MS CAI, and ZooZoom had no mods at the time. Spice pulled 235HP, I pulled 240HP and ZooZoom pulled 245HP.
.

You are correct about the temp variants, driver skill etc.

I also have an actual dyno graph of three of my local car sites members dynoing on LSE's "not conservative" Dyno Dynamics :rolleyes:

Red is stock.
Green has a CPE CAI(me).
Blue has a MS CAI and Turbo XS race pipe.

Similar to your comparison. Looks like 20-30hp difference between your dynojets and the Dyno Dynamics I was on... Hrm

[MrTea]

couple questions, from outside the speed3 area.

you have a boost gauge installed? i know the ETS was showign almost 2psi less loss across the core for the speed6 guys, so the couple that have talked about it are seeing closer to 17psi in reality now.

...haha, just realized there were more pages....so i can retract my other questions as they were answered.

on another note...hey Pisadong, remember me from the 6club days way back when! i'll be hitting the dyno again soon, hoping for some success after all my mods. maybe a mazda dyno day?

[knowledge007]

You know with all this fuss, I can only imagine the numbers I am putting out. These graphs just prove to me that I have surpassed the 300 mark.

[WickedMZR]

You know with all this fuss, I can only imagine the numbers I am putting out. These graphs just prove to me that I have surpassed the 300 mark.

I'm not trying to bash you or anything...but with the mods in your sig you are no where near 300 whp. Adding exhaust with the intake is not much of an increase in top end power though torque jumps up a bit. This has been proven on other MS3's and MS6's even with the Standback/Exede. I will say though that you have a nice looking car with a good mod list! :)


To the OP, nice numbers! Yes they are a little overstated but are inline with the cars that you compared to such as the Evo IX which is right where they should be.

[knowledge007]

Just not sure what tuning solution to purchase. Also not sure where I want to put my guages...??? A pillar or dash???

I don't understand then, are these dynos all whp??? How could I not be putting out a little over 300 in both hp and tq if I get 20-30 whp with the CAI and 40 atleast hp with the turbo back???

[Kosh]

Has anyone ever produced a sheet that showed over 300hp? I'm sure there are a few people around who have cai and high flow cat and 3" exhaust and even IC upgrades and whatever else and I haven't seen anyone claim 300hp. This is real life, not gran turismo where you can just add up numbers in your head and figure out your hp from what you have installed based on vendor claims. Go dyno and if you have 300hp then kudos. Just don't be disappointed if you are showing lower numbers than what you expect.

[shift_ms3]

^^^^^^^^^^
Lies! B.S.! Forgery! (loser)

But of course...I'm a master at faking dyno sheets (wink)

[knowledge007]

Has anyone ever produced a sheet that showed over 300hp? I'm sure there are a few people around who have cai and high flow cat and 3" exhaust and even IC upgrades and whatever else and I haven't seen anyone claim 300hp. This is real life, not gran turismo where you can just add up numbers in your head and figure out your hp from what you have installed based on vendor claims. Go dyno and if you have 300hp then kudos. Just don't be disappointed if you are showing lower numbers than what you expect.

Listen, I don't need a lecture about GT. If this chart shows this with just an IC upgrade then what do you think. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out. I have had more powerful cars than this little shit and yes it does feel about right at about 300.

And plus, dyno will come when I p/u a tuning solution until then why waste my friggin money.

BTW, if your going to lecture me, why don't you try and answer my questions first.

[laloosh]

lol ok youre going to hit 300whp are you happy now?
Its a dyno people, they vary from 216 stock to 260stock.
Hmm according to your reasoning i should be right around 300whp too.
260whp stock plus 19 for the intake plus 15 for the cat im going to remove....
humm 260 plus 19 plus 15 is 294whp. Omg i drive a 294whp car.

Get real(notcool)

[knowledge007]

I never said I was right...I am only inquiring...

And this dyno with just an IC upgrade seems pretty unreal anyway...

[pisadong]

couple questions, from outside the speed3 area.

you have a boost gauge installed? i know the ETS was showign almost 2psi less loss across the core for the speed6 guys, so the couple that have talked about it are seeing closer to 17psi in reality now.

...haha, just realized there were more pages....so i can retract my other questions as they were answered.

on another note...hey Pisadong, remember me from the 6club days way back when! i'll be hitting the dyno again soon, hoping for some success after all my mods. maybe a mazda dyno day?

Hey Bryan (it is Bryan right?(scratch), of course I remember you. How have you been. Still got the 6i huh. Glad to see you around.

[pisadong]

Quarter mile calculators don't mean shit. I have a slip to prove my time, I didnt use a "calculator". 85º and 90% humidity will kill most cars 1/4 mile times especially when theyre boosted. Now had I ran a 14.2 on a 60º day with no humidity it would be a different story.

And I do know the dyno I was on was conservative. The shop used zero correction factor, and that place has had MANY complaints about putting out "low" numbers. The shop owner at LSE told me about a Mustang owner complaining about only making 438whp on their dyno when he had made almost 500whp previously on a Dynojet in the same state(MN). The guy even went as far as to go back to the other shop, dyno there and bring a sheet back to LSE when he whined. Dyno numbers don't mean shit. 1/4 slips do.

http://www.dragtimes.com/Mazda-3-Timeslip-12528.html

You must have missed the part about my 300-350lb heavier car trapping the same speed as yours. This was on a real drag strip, not a digital one. Los Angeles County Raceway in Palmdale, CA. 2750' altitude, 100* temps, nice 20 mph headwind and it all adds up to one of the slowest tracks in the nation. I ran a 13.5 at 100mph there in my Legacy GT which at the time was making 255whp on the Dynojet. I have the slip somewhere. For as much time as you spend at the strip, and will all the crazy power your car is supposed to be making since you dynoed on a "low reading" dyno, you sure are slow!(naughty)(laugh)(upyours)

[knowledge007]

lmao

[Ferdball]

I ran a 13.5 at 100mph there in my Legacy GT which at the time was making 255whp on the Dynojet.

(*cough*) AWD (*cough*)

[pisadong]

(*cough*) AWD (*cough*)

AWD helps with the launch and thus the E.T., but the added drivetrain loss ends up hurting the trap speed. Trap speed is almost entirely dependent on the amount of power your car is making, unless you grossly mess up driving.

[ZooZoom]

is everybody "feelin the love" yet?

let's try to keep it civil guys. we are all here to learn from each other, share our experiences, and most importantly ENCOURAGE one another to post up real results. dyno sheets, time slips, lap times, and the occasional (cough - sanctioned - cough) road race outcome.

[Speed3Max]

All I have to say is..... NICE NUMBERS :) I wish I could dyno mine :( Naples,Fl suckssssss

[sanblaster1]

My Dyno would be 80-60 hence, why I don't want to dyno.

[Jesse MS3GT]

(*cough*) AWD (*cough*)
Thank you

Yes and does cali have high humidity? Water in the air is worse than hot DRY air...

Hmm 13.5 in a 255AWHP car is pretty slow if you ask me. Considering Evos have less AWHP stock and run similar times.

[dichiee]

I like nachos... do you like nachos?

[Jesse MS3GT]

Nachos are good. Spicy nachos are better

[ZooZoom]

I don't trust nachos. They don't mean anything in the real world. (beer)

[wolverine81]

I don't trust nachos. They don't mean anything in the real world. (beer)

(werd)

[Jesse MS3GT]

I don't trust nachos. They don't mean anything in the real world. (beer)

(smoke) less (butt)

[pisadong]

Thank you

Yes and does cali have high humidity? Water in the air is worse than hot DRY air...

Hmm 13.5 in a 255AWHP car is pretty slow if you ask me. Considering Evos have less AWHP stock and run similar times.

Stock Evo's typically run low 14's at LACR, with well driven ones in the same range as my car. I've seen poorly driven ones on particularly bad days run 15's. BTW, a stock Evo is only 5 whp behind my car on the same dyno and weigh a little less. So I guess that just goes to show that the ole Dynojet is pretty dang accurate (poke)

LACR is a very slow track. The problem there is high altitude, high heat, a consistent headwind and a track that tilts uphill at the end. If you can run a decent time there, you can run a great time anywhere else. BTW, since you obviously don't know, humidity has a smaller effect on power output than temperature.(wedge) The effect of high temperatures is compounded in an intercooled forced induction vehicle since the IC becomes less efficient and intake charge temperature rise dramatically making the car far more knock prone which leads to timing pulls and greatly reduced power output. Long story short, you'll have to find another excuse... (kiss)

[pisadong]

BTW, I just did a quick search and found a stock MS3 that ran 15.7@88.7mph at LACR. I think that gives everyone a good idea how slow that track is, and a good frame of reference to my times/traps there relative to my dyno results. Here's the post from the guy who ran the 15.7:

i went to LACR last night, which is the 1st time i've ever been to a drag strip, my fastest time was 15.7 @ 88.7mph
my reaction time was 1.002 ?? i think thats bad, plus wheel spin
& that was my fastest time. that kinda burned me out.
i know i'm not a pro, & i heard that Track really sucks but 15's

i think i should add that i was at an elavasion of 2750+

[ZooZoom]

Pis,

let me know when Calspeedway does its next open run day.

I need to get a time slip and shut some of these punks up.

[pisadong]

Pis,

let me know when Calspeedway does its next open run day.

I need to get a time slip and shut some of these punks up.

Battle of the Imports is this Sunday, and then Street Legal drags is on August 11th. I'll go too and if you want me to try my hand at running your car, I'd be more than happy to give it a whirl (first)(laugh)

[ZooZoom]

bummer. both days fall on my every-other weekends that I have my kids. and my company's picnic event is on 8/11.

it is something that I'd like to try once. but I know that my passion is for real track driving. I just love it!

[CTGrey02]

I just did dyno my completely stock MS3. SAE Corrected was 246.12 HP and 276.65. Another Car with just a cold air intake was putting down 268.44 HP and 296.74. Looks like these cars are underrated with the newer program in the ECU. Ricky Carr got some vid's of 3 of the MS3's and a MS6 on the rollers. I'll scan the sheets in when I get a chance.

[clos561]

the reflash everyones talking about?

[CTGrey02]

the reflash everyones talking about?

Mine came with it, but yeah. The A/F Ratio looks better than the early dyno's I saw too. It only goes REALLY rich after 5500 RPM, which is when the power takes a nose dive (assuming due to throttle plate closing). Just looking at the comparison sheet with the car with the CAI, it's at about 12.5:1 until just after 4k RPM then it goes below 12, but never below 10:1. A tune might not even be worth it if a CAI can fix the A/F Ratio sufficiently like this. (Yes I know a tune can increase power even more so, but I just want the A/F at a more normal rate for a FI vehicle.)

Also, numbers were identical with the hood closed and the fans blowing on it as they were with the hood open and the fans blowing on the IC.

Here's the dyno sheet with both on it. My car's obviously the lower powered run, and I believe Vod's car was the other.

http://www.ctgrey02.com/pics/dyno1.jpg

[clos561]

yours is stock right? he has tmic upgrade ?

[dalesd]

I'm planning to take my brand new MS3 to the dyno next weekend.

It's a Dynojet Model 248E. Is this a good one? What should I look out for?
I'll be there with a British car club.

Could you offer some Do's or Don'ts for getting good results? (e.g. Hood open or closed? Why or why not? What about heat soak on the intercooler? This is my first turbo car, so any tips will be helpful.)

[CTGrey02]

yours is stock right? he has tmic upgrade ?

Mines stock, the other guy had a Cold Air intake (think it was the injen now for what ever reason) Either way, just a CAI

Dalesd - Give the car time to cool down when you arrive. Open the hood, let the intercooler get some of the heat out. If you really wanted to get better numbers you could put a bag of ice on the Intercooler, but we didn't do that. Another thing you can do is spray the IC with water to cool it off. Other than that, closed hood got identical numbers to open hood with us, so we saw no difference. Also saw no difference in which gear it was in other than the time it took for the turbo to spool. 4th was apparently where the car liked being dyno'd though.

[MrTea]

though i think CAl Speedway is definately one of the greatest strips around here....i can't stand how busy it is for street legals. i swear it's like 2-3 runs if you lucky! we pulled up when they opened (given, it was after rebuilding the track after 6 months of being down) and the line to get in was past the corner of the street the track is on....friggin rediculous. i'd almost be happier doing the 2 hour drive up to bakersfield and running Fomosa 12 times to get the practice.

i've had my car on 5 different dyno's so i've seen the variances. i'm do for another one next month as well.

[dalesd]

I had my dyno runs today. Bone stock. 400 miles on the car.

Hood up for all runs. There was a fan in front of the car, one of those floor-drying fans. It was on top of two milk crates, so it was pointed almost directly at the Mazda badge.

All numbers are SAE corrected. All runs were in 4th gear.

First run had some wheel slippage, but the numbers were still valid, I think.
233.65 hp @ 5550 rpm
237.20 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm

Second run:
229.18 hp @ 5450 rpm
253.07 lb-ft @ 4100 rpm
No wheel slippage, but some heat soak. After the run, the IC was too hot to touch.

Before the third run, we sat the fan on the IC until it had a chance to cool back down to room temperature. Just a few minutes.

For the third and fourth runs, we opened the snaps on the stock airbox and pried it open a bit.

Third run:
250.60 hp @ 5450 rpm
283.21 lb-ft @ 4200 rpm

Fourth run:
230.36 hp @ 5550 rpm
248.58 lb-ft @ 3950 rpm
Looks like that IC gets heat soaked pretty fast.

I have the actual data files from the DynoJet. There's a free software viewer on DynoJet's website.

The A/F ratio is interesting. As soon as the boost comes on, the A/F drops like a rock.

[jeffmsp]

gas octane rating, ambient temp, intake temp, the shops fan power, humidity, elevation, spark plugs, how heat soaked the IM and IC are etc. are enough factors to conclude his dyno is possible I think. Theres a big difference in power if the ecu is pulling timing (for whatever reason) or if its running hard. Anybody bother looking at what the ms3 knock sensor is outputting on the dyno vs on the street?

[staples187]

I'm extremely happy with the 3.5" ETS TMIC. I run the car hard at 90+ degrees and when I come to a stop, open the hood at idle and the intercooler is like an ice cube.

3.5" TMIC, CPE CAI, Billet Rear Engine Mount, GHL 3" Exhaust. I'm debating between the Downpipe or the Test Pipe. They both have similar gains because the second cat seems to be where the main restriction is coming from.

I can't find a dyno around my area in Maryland (Harford County), if anyone has any info let me know.