2008.5 Speed3 or 2006 Audi A4 Avant 2.0T looking for enthusiats feedback

[///Manuel]

Been lurking the boards for the past couple of months. I was looking at getting a smaller sports car while still being able to carry my windsurfing gear around and getting decent gas mileage.

I ran into the speed3 and it looked like a promising option. However, I can't seem to be satisfied with its overall look and build quality (interior). The Audi has more luxury to it while not being as sporty (more weight and less power). The exterior looks of the Audi I feel are better as well.

Also, one advantage the Audi has (they have similar gas mileage) is that it's an AWD car. So could it be more fun to rotate through corners?
I'd be throwing a set of springs and possibly shocks on the Audi, as well as wheels and installing a CAI as well to open her up some.

Now, I understand the Audi's maintenance will be more expensive and that it wouldn't be new but I'm fine with that. Here is a list of pros for each. I need help!

A4:
- AWD
- Better look
- More room
- Better build quality

Speed3:
- Cheaper (maintenance & parts)
- New
- More options
- Faster

[trufanatic]

depends on what you the driver is looking for. two totally different cars for two totally different purposes.

MS3:
Mid range high power econobox compared to any audi
straightline w/ decent cornering performance
A good daily driver and toy mixed into the same car

Audi:
a drivers car, some performance mixed in with luxury
AWD a plus but more power you try and make, less of that being actually put to the ground
unless you get an Audi S4 dont expect to beat an MS3 in anything less

[SPEED305]

if thats your comparison,
the MS3 wins, same price for BRAND NEW car. there is no thought in that

[///Manuel]

Thanks. I loved the speed3 so much when I tried it that I was ready to buy it but didn't want to do anything impulsive either. I will try a 2.0T tomorrow and see what I think.

I really like enjoy breaking a car loose under power. That's almost what it's all about. Although I have heard of throttle steering being possible with the speed, I'm sure it requires more speed than anything legal on the street. For the track, I'd take the speed but for street I wonder if a 2.0T would do?

[trufanatic]

VW's 2.0t motor produces decent amounts of torque but its really underpowered and has a pea shooter for a turbo. ATP performance had a ton of turbo kits for these cars and you can probably make that audi turn out 300+whp. But it would cost you a whole lot less to turn out that much power in a MS3.

Its up to you

[lil_red_wagon]

if you want to make a comparison, compare apples to apples. the ms3 is fwd while the a4 is awd. compare the ms6 to the a4. making that comparison is more fair. while the 3 is a great car that is really good looking and performs really well, an awd system would be better on so many levels. the ms6 looks more responsible and not as fun, but awd turbo is TONS OF FUN.

honestly, if i had to make the choice of a4 versus ms3, i would take the a4. if i had to choose a4 or ms6, i would take the ms6. hands down on both of those decisions. up to you though. i would give the ms6 a shot at least.

[trufanatic]

if you want to make a comparison, compare apples to apples. the ms3 is fwd while the a4 is awd. compare the ms6 to the a4. making that comparison is more fair. while the 3 is a great car that is really good looking and performs really well, an awd system would be better on so many levels. the ms6 looks more responsible and not as fun, but awd turbo is TONS OF FUN.

honestly, if i had to make the choice of a4 versus ms3, i would take the a4. if i had to choose a4 or ms6, i would take the ms6. hands down on both of those decisions. up to you though. i would give the ms6 a shot at least.

X2

[fastdreams]

I love the Audi experience. Completely different character and feel than the MS3. I got the MS3 and was going to sell my Audi, but wound up keeping it as well. I drive the Audi more often. When I get in the Mazda, I'm kind of irritated by the clutch/tranny actuation. But my irritation is immediately gone when I hit the gas, and when I take a few corners at a fun speed.

Obviously the MS3 is faster in most situations, not necessarily more fun. It is very satisfying to take full advantage of quattro.

My MS3 is fun and a bit on the wild side, my Audi is more solid feeling, more confident. The Audi looks great, inside and out. Far and above the Mazda IMO.

BTW my audi is a '01.5 S4 Avant.

If you've never owned an Audi make sure you're getting a CPO (certified pre-owned warranty from Audi) if it's used. My car has 120k miles and hasn't been too troublesome, but I know some other guys that spend a lot more time and money in the shop.

I think I will always have an Audi in my posession, or be in between Audi's.

I brought my MS3 for the track event this weekend.

BTW, I've had comments from my wife and mom on separate occasions on how nice the Audi rides, and how well it handles the roads. This is the original (and getting worn IMO) suspension with 120k. They are less impressed with the MS3, but then it rides much more like a sports car and they are not car nuts like me.

[CX-7owner]

I would get the A4 avant, we have a 2.0T and with 499.99 you can have it chipped to output 290FTLBS, and 250HP.

Get the A4! And for the first 4/50,000 miles on 06 models maintenance is free.

[Derek88]

Get the A4! And for the first 4/50,000 miles on 06 models maintenance is free.

Good thing you said '06s... they stopped that for '07+.

I used to work for VW/Audi (I was mostly in VW though) and I had a '03 A4 as well as drove all of the loaner cars for Audi- including taking a '06 A4 to the beach for a week.

I would choose the MS3. Although the Audi may be a bit better in some aspects, IMO, it doesnt offset the cost. A timing belt job for those is well over $1000 (timing chain for the MS3). CV boots at all corners, soft-ass german brake pads, ect. will cost you so much more money than with the Mazda. Even though the same engine is used with the Passat and the GTI, A3/4 parts are much more expensive!

The Mazda would be a lot cheaper, more fun to drive (although I loved my Audi), and much quicker. But it depends if that's what you're into.

If you do decide to get the Audi, you wont be disappointed as they are great cars. But definitely get an S-line 6spd Quattro!

[happy and angry]

Be careful with Audis/VWs. For the last 6 or 7 years, the electrical systems for those cars have been incredibly problematic. Yes, build quality is better in some areas, but reliability in others is seriously suspect.if you want to make a comparison, compare apples to apples.I HATE it when people say this. It's incredibly dumb to suggest that you can't compare "apples to oranges." Comparing two different things is THE ENTIRE POINT OF A COMPARISON IN THE FIRST PLACE.

[///Manuel]

Wow such good feedback, thank you all!

For those mentioning the MS6, unfortunately I need a hatchback to fit my windsurfing stuff. Which is unfortunate because it cuts down on my options.

I went and tried out an 06 2.0T 6-speed this afternoon.

First, the exterior look is very nice, I definitely like the lines and with a drop and some nice wheels, this ride will look sharp.

The interior is just as nice and the build quality is excellent everywhere. The one thing I immediately noticed is that I have very little heel room which makes it impossible to tilt my foot sideways for heel and toeing action. You have to keep your foot straight and put it halfway on the brake pedal instead to heel with the side of your foot as opposed to your well ... your heel :) Some modifications around the pedals will need to take place.

The clutch felt ok, there's quite a bit of play there until it grabs and then you can feel the whole four wheels moving!

Speaking of moving, luckily for me, it had just snowed overnight so I had about 2 or 3 inches of ice and snow on side streets for my driving pleasure while the main roads were clear for asphalt contact fun.

I started off things gently warming up the car. Unlike the speed3 I had no problem adjusting to the clutch or gearbox. It would even forgive small errors and never induce jerking. That is really nice.

Once accustomed to the controls and nicely fitted in the seats I decided to let the 2.0T motor speak. First thing I noticed was how nicely the ESP (traction control) interacted with the driver. It was not too obtrusive. However, the lack of sliding got to me and I had to shut it off.

As I was getting more confident (talking about a few seconds here really), I turned in, pushed the gas in and went into four wheel drifting so easily. Absolutely no problem keeping the car under control, amazing traction at turn in even on the snow and wonderful power delivery. Lots of people speak of Subaru's traction out here in Colorado, man does the Audi Quattro do a good job of taking care of that as well.

After a few more slides and ABS braking, I went on to the highway. There the car didn't feel as connected to the road as the speed, and didn't have nearly as much power but enough to have some fun. It doesn't beg to be pushed as the speed does. The steering wasn't as precise as well. I believe springs (stiffen the whole thing), exhaust (better sound) and chip (more power) would help to alleviate some of these things. But as far as road feel goes, the speed wins.

Brakes didn't feel as good in the Audi. I thought they lacked precision and modulation when the Mazda's were impeccable.

So there you have it. AWD, more luxury, refinement, room and quality on one side, more power, performance, connection with the road, cheaper option on the other.

At this point, I believe neither would be a bad choice but the Audi's additional room and tuning possibilities seem attractive to me.

[CX-7owner]

Quattro is amazing, that alone (AWD over FWD) would have me at the Audi dealer.

Getting a RS4 sway bar would greatly improves handling, although I'm not sure if it works for the Avant.
The FSI is more reliable when you want to start pushing the envelope too.

[///Manuel]

I have started browsing around Audi forums, it looks like there are some interesting tuning routes (chip or turbo swap) that could get the car to move enough for my taste. I will also contact a friend of mine who owns an Audi shop and see what he thinks.

I thought for sure I was going to get the speed3 though. I would love to see the 2008.5 when it comes out. The power looks so awesome but I don't know if I would be satisfied with fwd only and the "ok" build quality.

It is so nice to see fairly unbias feedback on this forum though, thanks all.

[CX-7owner]

Once you have AWD you will hate FWD, I had a FWD S40 prior to my AWD CX-7 and I can't believe I didn't have AWD sooner, it's just better, in nearly every aspect, in the dry, wet, anytime where FWD would be spinning wheels.

[Savate]

Going back to the OPs comment on luxury, I would have to say that that interier of most Audi car look great but have a bad habit of turning to crap over a short period of time. Buttons peeling, window switches breaking, trim coming loose,etc...plus the center cap paint peels off like sunburnt skin. I can say this with some authority because I have worked in an Audi warranty dept. for some time now. On the plus they ride real smooth but good luck parking in a short turn. (drinks) either way.

[CX-7owner]

I'm having that same problem on my CX-7, two window switches broke, silver trim is scratching very easily, thing's aren't fitting like they used to, but no doubt I still love the car, the Audi has only needed the Airbag resistor fixed ( same thing happened in my CX-7 ) and the gear shift trim replaced (the black plastic stuff) we're at 34K miles now and 24K in the CX-7.

I just chalk it up to things that happen, car's aren't perfect, but Audi has a track record of quality issues as time passes, we're just extra careful.

[fastdreams]

Interesting comments on the interior. On Audi's I've owned, some parts of the interior hold up very poorly, but MOST of the interior still looks beautiful and fresh after many many miles. For some reason Audi chose some weird materials for the door pulls, and the shifter console. Those are the only areas of my interior that piss me off. They feel good to the touch but wind up being too soft for the long haul. I guess cheap hard plastic would have held up better but look and feel like shit anyway.

RE: turning radius? Seriously? My MS3 has a horrid turning radius (not that I care) whereas my Audi can probably turn a circle completely inside of my MS3 turning circle.

RE: road feel
The Audi has much more of a "chunky" feel. You will never have that road feel that you get from the likes of an M3, or an MS3 for that matter. I really like the chunky feel as for me it's part of the Audi experience. It plays well in hand with the rest of the solid, confident inspiring experience you get when you push the Audi hard. You will feel like a hero at first, because the Audi chassis + quattro do a great job of masking driver error. And when you get good, it turns out to be a very capable dance partner. (just look at the winner of Sport compact car mags recent ultimate street car challenge: http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/uscc/0712_sccp_2007_ultimate_street_car_challenge/index.html)

RE: FWD sucks

At the track, the MS3 really hauls and the FWD is not as much of a limitation as I expected. It is very forgiving and the LSD works very well. On the street however, it gets on my nerves at times, especially if the road is not perfectly dry. All this power and nowhere to put it.

RE: aftermarket
If you like to mod, you will love the aftermarket for the Audi. There are so many good parts available you will have trouble deciding what to buy! The MS3 has next to nothing available by comparison.

Random thoughts:
Ultimately, I'd rather have a modded Audi than a MS3. Even if the Audi is slower overall. But I'm happy to have the MS3, it is definitely a blast and I intend to hang on to it for a good long while. I chose the MS3 as a compromise (economics were the compromising factor) and I'm happy that I chose the Mazda over the other compromise choices: GTI, SI, WRX, etc.

Honestly this would be a tough choice for me if I was in your shoes, my heart would tell me to jump in the Audi, but my mind and pocket book would have me in the MS3.

[Powerslave]

ms3 is great quality and has a better motor, the turbo in the a4 is just an older model of ours, our turbo is "new and improved". But still the audi has class and 4whd....

[fastdreams]

ms3 is great quality and has a better motor, the turbo in the a4 is just an older model of ours, our turbo is "new and improved". But still the audi has class and 4whd....


More stock power does not necessarily equal a better motor. The MS3 engine is still an unproven. The VAG 2.0T and the prior 1.8T are renowned for being outstanding engines and are incredibly tunable. I hope the mazda will get more attention and tuning in time, but for now, it sucks wind to the Audi/VW tuning scene. So far all I see from Mazda guys are POS piggy backs and broken engines. Mazda has more power stock? Sheeeit I hope so with a 2.3liter running 15+ pounds of boost. If it had any less running that kind of boost it'd be a joke, IMO. Turn the wick up to 15+ on the 2.0t in the Audi and it gets uncomfortably close in power to the 2.3t at the same boost levels.

I'm not bad mouthing Mazda, I really hope the 2.3t becomes the "best thing going" in the next few years so I can ride that wave. It has a lot of potential, but it is not yet realized.

I really don't like how inconsistent the power is in my Mazda. It is smoother than I expected coming from Mazda, and it performs well most of the time. But at random times it has far less power, for no damn reason.

[Engineer420]

IMO people saying audi "build" quality is better than mazdas is BS.. Audi build quality isn't all that great with electrical problems with taillights(i see all the time by the way) as noted earlier and hardware in the cabin breaks with time. Its a good product and looks great when new and I'm not bashing audis but for me, audis/vw's aren't that durable in the long run with interior wear. I have many family and friends with audi/vw's that have all sorts of loose and broken interior pieces with trim comming unglued, buttons/ switches that don't work, broken cupholders, doorpanels comming off, ...etc. Audi/VW suffer from premature wear that shouldn't happen on relatively new cars. All the things that i've seen break from the audi/vw's just never happened to any of my mazdas. Mazda builds quality durable cars that last from my experiences over the last ten years(my third car). Also, comparing the A4 with the MS3 isn't the right comparrison..the two cars are in two separate classes.. the MS6 is in the same class and it is AWD like the audi. DOn't know if you've seen the new mazda 6 but it looks better than the audi by the way.

[Hapa88]

Audi build quality isn't all that great with electrical problems with taillights(i see all the time by the way) as noted earlier and hardware in the cabin breaks with time.

What are you talking about in the taillights?

[CX-7owner]

Newer A4's have no electrical problems, but the interiors are better built hands down way better than anything Mazda has put out recently, if the electrical problem with taillights is the morons that turn on their rear fog light with their front fogs, then it's not a problem, just driver error.

[Savate]

oh, I forgot to mention the dozen or so armrests I receive for waranty a week plus 5-6 glove box lids, and whats up with the cup holders? Damn thing are over complicated and break all the time, and let's not forget the sun visors, though I admit I only see 3-4 a week go into my warranty bins. For the money people shell out for these cars for "luxury", it makes me wonder. Some of the features are really nice, for the money.

[Savate]

More stock power does not necessarily equal a better motor. The MS3 engine is still an unproven. The VAG 2.0T and the prior 1.8T are renowned for being outstanding engines and are incredibly tunable. I hope the mazda will get more attention and tuning in time, but for now, it sucks wind to the Audi/VW tuning scene. So far all I see from Mazda guys are POS piggy backs and broken engines. Mazda has more power stock? Sheeeit I hope so with a 2.3liter running 15+ pounds of boost. If it had any less running that kind of boost it'd be a joke, IMO. Turn the wick up to 15+ on the 2.0t in the Audi and it gets uncomfortably close in power to the 2.3t at the same boost levels.

I'm not bad mouthing Mazda, I really hope the 2.3t becomes the "best thing going" in the next few years so I can ride that wave. It has a lot of potential, but it is not yet realized.

I really don't like how inconsistent the power is in my Mazda. It is smoother than I expected coming from Mazda, and it performs well most of the time. But at random times it has far less power, for no damn reason.

Both of those A4 motors run great but I have seen WAY too many sludged 1.8T's to make me even consider it a "good" motor. It could be user neglect, but why that specific motor all the time? The 2.0T seems to be improved, I've only seen 3 replaced last year.

[CX-7owner]

Both of those A4 motors run great but I have seen WAY too many sludged 1.8T's to make me even consider it a "good" motor. It could be user neglect, but why that specific motor all the time? The 2.0T seems to be improved, I've only seen 3 replaced last year.
So much hate, I mean the 1.8T did have sludge problems but it has been fixed, as far as the 2.0T goes it's amazing, and Mazda definitely hasn't caught up to the 2.0T in terms of refinement, or driveability, lets not forget motor mounts failing, several reflashes for the PCM(at least for the CX-7), etc.. Audi isn't perfect and neither is Mazda.

The 2.0T is such a major improvement over the 1.8T, no lag and a fat torque curve.

[PeterC]

Regarding the clutch, the MS3s is pretty bad, but I have 4 friends that own A4s and all of them complain about their clutches being touchy and generally unforgiving compared to BMWs.

[Engineer420]

Driving around the city..I see a few audis every week that have their taillights stuck "on".. from A4 to A8s, mostly A4's meaning it looks like the person is driving around with their foot on the brake. I laugh at those people because they have no idea and just bought a new 85,000 A8 that doesn't have working taillights

Audis look great on the showroom floor and don't forget were talking about the cheapest new A4 costing 35,000 plus, so of course the interior finishes are nicer because they use suede and other finishes that look and feel nice so they sell cars but peel and fade. Mazda isn't in the business of making luxury vehicles but rather good cars for the money that last. My point is just because the Audi interior is nicer doesn't mean its better Quality. That same Audi interior will disappoint you after 3-4 years of normal wear and tear cuz I've seen it over and over. For example, would you say a lexus is better quality than a honda. The lexus is nicer but the actual Build Quality isn't any better. same in this case of audi and mazda

[Savate]

So much hate, I mean the 1.8T did have sludge problems but it has been fixed, as far as the 2.0T goes it's amazing, and Mazda definitely hasn't caught up to the 2.0T in terms of refinement, or driveability, lets not forget motor mounts failing, several reflashes for the PCM(at least for the CX-7), etc.. Audi isn't perfect and neither is Mazda.

The 2.0T is such a major improvement over the 1.8T, no lag and a fat torque curve.

Trust me, its not hate. I love the commissions to order new engines, it helped pay for my new MS3! I agree with the improvements on the base engine. The turbo still leaves something to be desired as I seem to replace just as many.

[PeterC]

RE: turning radius? Seriously? My MS3 has a horrid turning radius (not that I care) whereas my Audi can probably turn a circle completely inside of my MS3 turning circle.


From Edmunds:
Mazdaspeed 3: 36.1 ft
Audi A4: 36.4 ft

[fastdreams]

Both of those A4 motors run great but I have seen WAY too many sludged 1.8T's to make me even consider it a "good" motor. It could be user neglect, but why that specific motor all the time? The 2.0T seems to be improved, I've only seen 3 replaced last year.

Hah. I never had a problem with my 2 1.8t Audi's. Lots and lots of very hard miles. Very hard. Chipped miles and k04'd miles. Tracked, autocrossed, heavily abused on the street miles.

Maybe a combination of Audi's bad maintenance recommendations (which they've changed), user neglect, and perhaps a design sensitive to both of the above caused the 1.8t sludge issue during a certain period of time.

Consider that since you are on the maintenance end of Audis, obviously all you are going to see are problems. I guarantee that if you work for BMW or MB you will have the same kind of experience. Even Mazda, if all you see are the problems day in and out, of course that forms your opinion about the whole shebang. Tell you what, to this day I'm really quite surprised how well the F-16 works, and sometimes it's a wonder to me how they aren't falling out of the sky. 3 years wrenching on those things will make you wonder.

The 1.8t and 2.0t are outstanding engines, better than good. A few maintenance issues you have seen do not make them less so. Do Audi's have more issues than a Mazda? Of course. I actually bought the Mazda because I'd like to have a break from the Audi pay-to-play ratio. But what do I find when I start doing more investigation of the 2.3t? Oh my, this is probably not going to be the free ride I was hoping for. Loving the 2000 mile creaks and rattles too. At least I can just say, well it's a car with economy roots. When my Audi creaks and rattles it's a little more annoying :)

You aren't the first Audi tech I've seen tell people to stay away from them. But I also know Audi techs that love them to death and will only drive Audi. <shrug> I think it's just a state of mind.

I will admit that my Audi experience is all B5, from 1997-2001.5 (my current Audi is 2001.5 S4 avant) so I don't know much about the B6+.

But I love the MS3, and as I've come to expect with this car as well as other cars, you have to pay to play if you want to have this much fun.

I don't have a point, just my thoughts.

[tunersteve]

The 2.3 MZR has been on Ward's 10 Best Engines since it debuted in the MS6, 3 years in a row I believe.

More stock power does not necessarily equal a better motor. The MS3 engine is still an unproven. The VAG 2.0T and the prior 1.8T are renowned for being outstanding engines and are incredibly tunable. I hope the mazda will get more attention and tuning in time, but for now, it sucks wind to the Audi/VW tuning scene. So far all I see from Mazda guys are POS piggy backs and broken engines. Mazda has more power stock? Sheeeit I hope so with a 2.3liter running 15+ pounds of boost. If it had any less running that kind of boost it'd be a joke, IMO. Turn the wick up to 15+ on the 2.0t in the Audi and it gets uncomfortably close in power to the 2.3t at the same boost levels.

I'm not bad mouthing Mazda, I really hope the 2.3t becomes the "best thing going" in the next few years so I can ride that wave. It has a lot of potential, but it is not yet realized.

I really don't like how inconsistent the power is in my Mazda. It is smoother than I expected coming from Mazda, and it performs well most of the time. But at random times it has far less power, for no damn reason.

[CX-7owner]

Driving around the city..I see a few audis every week that have their taillights stuck "on".. from A4 to A8s, mostly A4's meaning it looks like the person is driving around with their foot on the brake. I laugh at those people because they have no idea and just bought a new 85,000 A8 that doesn't have working taillights

Audis look great on the showroom floor and don't forget were talking about the cheapest new A4 costing 35,000 plus, so of course the interior finishes are nicer because they use suede and other finishes that look and feel nice so they sell cars but peel and fade. Mazda isn't in the business of making luxury vehicles but rather good cars for the money that last. My point is just because the Audi interior is nicer doesn't mean its better Quality. That same Audi interior will disappoint you after 3-4 years of normal wear and tear cuz I've seen it over and over. For example, would you say a lexus is better quality than a honda. The lexus is nicer but the actual Build Quality isn't any better. same in this case of audi and mazda

That same MZ3/MS3 interior will start to scratch very easily and rattle very early on.. the silver trim in my CX-7 is disappointing because it scratches SO easily and just gets worse, just a few more dollars spent on development could have improved the design and I wouldn't be talking about it now.

The interior quality is better in the Audi, the durability of the materials is lacking, and from both manufacturers, one thing my Audi is free of, rattles!
The build quality is better too, the panel fitment/gaps is impressive, that interior design has been around for a while though.

[CX-7owner]

The 2.3 MZR has been on Ward's 10 Best Engines since it debuted in the MS6, 3 years in a row I believe.
The FSI 2.0T has been on that same list (above the DISI 2.3T).

[Engineer420]

Mazda's aren't perfect and mazda has to stop somewhere in order to give you a 25,000 MS3 or whatever your cx-7 went for. Point is for the money..mazda is the best value for every dollar you spend. I don't have any trim to scratch and no creaks/sqeeks in my ms3 at 16,000.

[tunersteve]

The FSI 2.0T has been on that same list (above the DISI 2.3T).

I actually just looked at that and see it mentioned as well. I was just stating that wow a newcomer on the engine scene, the engine itself is well praised by many automotive resources.

[Hapa88]

Driving around the city..I see a few audis every week that have their taillights stuck "on".. from A4 to A8s, mostly A4's meaning it looks like the person is driving around with their foot on the brake. I laugh at those people because they have no idea and just bought a new 85,000 A8 that doesn't have working taillights

Sorry to inform you but THIS IS A REAR FOG LIGHT! In Europe this is standard equipment on all Audi's, BMWs, Mercedes, Jaguar, etc. On older VWs/Audis it is only on one side (looks like 1 brake light on). On the newer cars it is on both sides looking like the brake lights are always on.

Note the switch here with front and rear fog lights:
http://www.whittenfarm.com/Photos/Touareg/DSCN2303.jpg

Here is one activated:
http://www.istargazer.ca/images/rearfog.jpg

on a BMW:
http://www.jadeturtle.com/bmw/fogon.jpg

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the car, it's because the driver has no idea there are two fog light buttons, one for the front, one for the rear (they probably just use both).

[fastdreams]

From Edmunds:
Mazdaspeed 3: 36.1 ft
Audi A4: 36.4 ft


I'll be damned. I don't believe it. I have to do more 3-point turns in my Mazda than any car I've had in a while. Maybe it's different with the newer audis? Mine is a 2001.5 S4.

[fastdreams]

Mazda's aren't perfect and mazda has to stop somewhere in order to give you a 25,000 MS3 or whatever your cx-7 went for. Point is for the money..mazda is the best value for every dollar you spend. I don't have any trim to scratch and no creaks/sqeeks in my ms3 at 16,000.

Can't argue with that, it's the main reason there is a MS3 in my driveway, next to my wife's '08 CRV (22k for that, hell of a deal for what the car gives you) and of course my "old" love, the 2001.5 Audi S4. The best feeling car on the road? Well sorry it's the Audi :P with 120k miles all stock. The MS3 is more fun and more engaging.

No creaks at 16k miles?! Lucky. I'm at about 4500 now and have a couple, the damn dash rattles like it's got 250k miles on it. Mine is an '08, is yours?

[fastdreams]

To continue my PW'ing of this thread:

My comments regarding the engine being "unproven" are from the perspective of aftermarket tuning. No doubt this thing is a gem from Mazda, but disappointing so far in the aftermarket.

I hate it when Audi drivers have their damn rear fogs on for no reason. I feel like pulling them over and slapping them twice, then showing them why.

[CX-7owner]

Haha yeah, they're so simple that they pull it out for the fogs up front(on the A4) and pull it out too far, and turn on the rear fogs, blinding people blocks away.

[mrlilguy157]

my best friend actually just bought an 06 a4 2.0t, fully loaded FWD model for $22.5 out the door. i love the car, and if i wasn't a speed demon at heart, that's what i'd be in. its definately got the business class, and it feels amazing behind the wheel. the leather seat heaters are great too. Your choice, just depends on what you really want.

[Hapa88]

I hate it when Audi drivers have their damn rear fogs on for no reason. I feel like pulling them over and slapping them twice, then showing them why.

Don't blame you there. . . it's one of my pet peeves too.

Anyway, I just have to admit that the Audi has a lot of little details that make it "nicer". I especially like the ambient amber lighting to all the buttons being illuminated at night (I mean all of them, even in the doors, vents & steering wheel). There's no "guessing" where things are. Plus the gauges are actually illuminated from behind (backlit) as opposed to the MS3s blue LED being shined onto the gauge itself (reflected off the gauge). I also like the sport steering wheel with the extra wide grips at the 2 & 10 O' Clock positions (not sure if it's on the A4, but it is on the VW R32, GTI, & Audi TT).

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/227/493766843_2485b279e1_b.jpg

But I guess that difference in price makes it possible. Still the MS3 is an excellent value and great overall car.

[Betelgeuse]

Mazda's aren't perfect and mazda has to stop somewhere in order to give you a 25,000 MS3 or whatever your cx-7 went for. Point is for the money..mazda is the best value for every dollar you spend. I don't have any trim to scratch and no creaks/sqeeks in my ms3 at 16,000.

+100

Absolutely without a doubt the most sensible post here imo. You have people talking about interior quality and gizmos. Well folks, you pay for that.
The ms3 has all the gizmos it needs in its price class. If I wanted something with no rattles, creaks, and all the bells and whistles, and nice pretty lights at night (half of which are probably useless and just a distraction anyway) I'd go with a Lexus, Acura or BMW to name a few.

Then we have people talking about the disi's lack of an aftermarket. Well what do you expect for an engine that's a couple years old? The aftermarket will come in time. Also, mazdaspeeds are limited production cars so companies aren't gonna rush to make products for them, it's just business sense. I will say for the little time the ms3 has been out, it has gained a lot of attention from the tuning world and there are some decent products on the horizon.

The fact that the ms3 is constantly being compared to cars a lot more expensive speaks volumes about its abilities.

[tunersteve]

To continue my PW'ing of this thread:

My comments regarding the engine being "unproven" are from the perspective of aftermarket tuning. No doubt this thing is a gem from Mazda, but disappointing so far in the aftermarket.

I hate it when Audi drivers have their damn rear fogs on for no reason. I feel like pulling them over and slapping them twice, then showing them why.

I see more parts for the 2.3 MZR turbo than I did for my 2.0 FSDE out of my Protege. Seeing as how the 2.0 had been out longer, I think that speaks for itself.

[Engineer420]

I don't get the rear fog light thing..cuz the break lights don't work (except for the third one in the window) when its switched on..which really kinda makes no sense to me cuz how can you drive around without brake lights?..fog or no fog.

[tunersteve]

I don't get the rear fog light thing..cuz the break lights don't work (except for the third one in the window) when its switched on..which really kinda makes no sense to me cuz how can you drive around without brake lights?..fog or no fog.

Some euro cars only have the rear fog light on one of the tails, and it's usually on a light that isn't a two-stage bulb. That way, when you hit the pedal, all three lights come on.

[fastdreams]

I see more parts for the 2.3 MZR turbo than I did for my 2.0 FSDE out of my Protege. Seeing as how the 2.0 had been out longer, I think that speaks for itself.

What that tells me is that aftermarket for the 2.0FSDE in your Protege is next to non-existent. Which speaks to me about the engine not considered by tuning companies to have enough of an enthusiast market to put forth the effort of making parts for it. It's all about the money, if they don't see enough money in it, they won't put forth the effort.

I also think the relative newness and so far few production numbers of the 2.3t is why the aftermarket is still weak, but I have faith it will get much better. It just takes time.

I can understand your perspective coming from a different mazda with even less aftermarket, but I'm looking at different makes, specifically Audi for this comparison.

[tunersteve]

Just another suggestion, since you need a wagon, why not consider the 6 wagon with the V6 in it? They're giving crazy rebates on those as well.

As for the engine stuff, I think that 4 years ago, most people didn't even think of Mazda as being worthwhile in terms of aftermarket. Since the inception of the 2.3 MZR, tons of companies have started making products for them. With Ford going to the EcoBoost line in the next 5 years, the DISI/turbo engines should take off even more, since Ford will probably utilize a detuned version of this engine in some vehicle at a later date.

Audi's are great engines, and since they're used in the VW lines as well, gives the aftermarket companies a good opportunity to make a product that applies to multiple vehicles. I think we'll see that from Mazda/Ford as well.

[///Manuel]

Well because the Mazda 6 isn't FI. Because of the altitude here we lose quite a bit of power with NA engines.

[tunersteve]

Well because the Mazda 6 isn't FI. Because of the altitude here we lose quite a bit of power with NA engines.

Ha, didn't even think about that. I know that V6 has a decent amount of power so I thought it might be a valid alternative, but I realize your point.