Was offered a good price to put on the Nitrous Express "N-Ter" cooler kit

[OrangeSpeed]

What do you think about this kit, it sprays on the intercooler and they have seen gains of 52 horsepower at teh wheels with a turbocharged civic. The guy at the shop said I wont see those on teh stock intercooler but he said i would be able to tell a big difference, possibly up to 30 horsepower as a guess on a car he has not worked on. But he has been dealing nitrous express for 15 years and knows his stuff. What are your opinions on this? Too risky? Go for it? Let me know Thanks.

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

i would really suggest changing out the intercooler and exhaust first. the exhaust would be the first on my list of major mods. that stock turbo back is just WAY tooooo restrictive. if you wanna be hardcore use 3" piping, if not 2.25-2.75" is more than decent then get a nice big front mount or a top mount with working hood scoop (scoop's gotta be big, like the STI scoop). that should cool down the intercooler nicely. after that, put the n-tercooler kit in. that will lower the already (relatively) low temp of the intercooler. after that you will see real gains.

[ozz]

if your gona do that you should just get the freon to air intercooler/ hooks up to your ac/leagle and never have to refill

[BlackMSP]

ya im going with 3" stainless exhaust and a way larger FMIC right when I get my car back.

[I-Am-Chris]

um use CO2 instead of Nitrous its alot cheaper

[OrangeSpeed]

But even with Co2 which he said i could use, should i do this? I mean its 375 for the kit and like nothing for install..... he said he installed one on a 1.8T and he said through 1st and 2nd there wasnt much difference but once they hit 3rd and 4th after the intercooler was frozen.... he said it was unbelievable the power rush was great. I just dont want to do something pointless. Thanks

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

then go for it. i know it works. the price is good too

[OrangeSpeed]

The only worry i had and i was wondering if anyone thinks i would be expierencing this. The freezing and thawing of the intercooler....the expansions and contractions from cold to hot, would that affect anything? I mean im not going to be spraying up to the grocery store or anything just at the track and a couple times on the street a week. Would this have a bearing on anything? Thanks, other than that i think im going to go for it soon.

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

na it shouldn't. the intercooler expands and contracts all the time. pick up (try to) a copy of the latest tech issue of Turbo magazine. its the one about turbos. there is some really interesting stuff in there about turbos, impeller blades, compressor maps, intercoolers, oil, etc.

[twiztedjeckel]

yeah man go for it. spray till your blue in the face. make sure you use alot of it so it throws off the readings on your ECU and makes it think its readings are correct and does funky things to the car.

[big_ben]

How much was he going to sell it for? I have one I'm selling, maybe I'll beat his price. Let me know.

[OrangeSpeed]

Dude twisted instead of saying random stuff that doesnt help and being kind of nasty for some reason, it would help if you could give me reason why, dude everything can mess up the computer the k&n can mess it up so whats the big deal if it doesnt work i can take it off. My main question was would i gain out of it and would it affect my intercooler. Later

[OrangeSpeed]

Oh and he wanted 379.95 for the whole kit, so if you can beat that price and hold on to it for a little while i would probably be interested. Is yours used at all? Thanks

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

yeah anything beyond stock will jack up the balance in the ECM. just flash it b4 you do any performance mods. well i don't think flashing will work for this mod cuz its a HP-on-demand mod, like nitrous and turbo timers. just to be safe, orange you better flash it b4 ur first shot.

[03SpeedLSD]

FLASH??? Please explain this. Thanx...Later,

[boostisgood]

Originally posted by AFaceInTheCrowd
yeah anything beyond stock will jack up the balance in the ECM. just flash it b4 you do any performance mods. well i don't think flashing will work for this mod cuz its a HP-on-demand mod, like nitrous and turbo timers. just to be safe, orange you better flash it b4 ur first shot.

Dear lord, if you do not know WTF you are talking about, please dont post in a thread you have absolutly no idea what is being discussed. He wants to put on a kit that sprays notrous ON his intercooler, it in no way, shape, or form will throw off anything with his computer. it has a MAF at the filter and after the stock IC. the computer reads the MAF after the Ic to calculate the correct fuel needed, the maf at the air filter is related to boost pressure release.

Flashing a computer dont do shit anyways but cause long term problems. If anything for engine managment, you go with a stand alone unit or an Air Fuel controller.

Not Flaming, just giving advise to make sure you know what your talking about instead of making yourself look like a fool.

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

yeah i know what the freak the n-tercooler is. its a rail that mounts onto the intercooler and nitrous goes through it ONTO the intercooler. thats why i said "well i don't think flashing will work for this mod". and as for the flashing (haha) someone else said that that was a good idea, so i was going off that. sry if i mess up neones car (geez). but wait, isn't there a temp sensor somewhere on the intake route??

[twiztedjeckel]

http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76714&perpage=25&pagenumber=3

some interesting results on page 3 incase it doesn't automatically direct you to it. but there is lots of useful info on the 2 previous pages. i suggest you ladies take a look at it. might shed a little light onto what i was saying in my earlier post.

[I-Am-Chris]

wow crazy, its a good kit if you are in alot of hot weather. dont get me wrong it works good in cold too. look how big the spraybar is and make sure it will fit! they good thing is if you do a FMIC you can still use it. I've personally heard good thing about the kit. Ive seen people spray fire ext., nitrous strait out the bottle, water sprayer kits, CO2, and other things. I would just save it for the track or Street races (OH NO I SAID IT!!!!!!!!) hahaha!!!!

[big_ben]

I'll give you mine for $350 shipped. I bought mine new and never installed it. It isn't in the package because I had to at least take it out and look at it and drool on it, but besides that, it's new. You may have to wipe the drool off of it. J/K I can hang on to it till whenever. Just let me know when.

[OrangeSpeed]

Well there is a good chance I will buy it from you but im still just not sure if I should do it or not, this thread has basically gone back and forth about it so we will see. Thanks

[big_ben]

I can give you some insight on it. The car they were talking about was an RX7 which is a rotary and also runs like 20psi of boost. The car you are talking about putting it on is a reciprocating piston engine and only runs up to 8psi. They are comparing apples to oranges. There is NO comparison that can be done between a rotary and a piston motor. One detonation on a rotary motor and the apex seals are gone. ZERO FORGIVENESS. Piston motors are more forgiving. Anyway, at the low psi you are running, there is no danger. Don't expect to see 50hp with it though. I'd say you could easily expect 10hp gain at the wheels. But witht he current intercooler, you can't use it. You need a larger front mount.

[OrangeSpeed]

I asked the guy at the shop about that, whether i could use it on the stock intercooler or not and he said thinks he can mount it right in front of the stock intercooler. I believe thats what he did on the 1.8T is mount on the stock intercooler, not totally sure on that one though. Thanks

[big_ben]

He may be able to do it, it might look funny, but I'm sure it would work.

[OrangeSpeed]

Should I turn up the boost first? Or do you think it would be affective with the stock boost as well...... can you over intercool a turbo? Im not sure how that would work, i know too big of an intercooler willl slow you down on lower boost but never really heard of anyone overintercooling, just curious. Thanks

[big_ben]

There is no such thing as over intercooling. All an intercooler does is cool down the compressed air.

When any fluid(air) is comressed, it gains some heat. When a fluid is heated, it expands and becoms less dense. Thnk of boiling a pot of water. When it starts to boil, it seems like the water level is higher than when you first started, that's because the fluid has expanded. Or when you put an empty water bottle in the freezer, in about 5 minutes, the bottle will partially collapse on itself. That's because the fluid(air) inside it has contracted and become more dense.

The cooler you get the air, the more air you will get inside the motor. Trust me, you will not cool it so much that you will need extra fuel to compensate for it. This is what the other people were stating. That is simply not true. It may be true if you were running 20psi like some RX7's, but not for a low psi setup like the MSP.

Actually, if you use the N-tercooler, you may not need to turn up to boost. It may give you enough of a dense charge that you will notice the same power gains as if you turned up the boost 1 to 2psi.

As for what you were talking about with pressure drop, the small intercooler that is on the MSP will have hardly no pressure drop. Pressure drop is caused by having too big of an intercooler with too little psi going through it. There is no need for a huge front mount if you are only running 5 to 9psi. You will actually lose some hp because the air will be cooled so much that it loses some of it's compressivness. Remember, when air is cooled, it contracts and becomes dense. When air is heated, it expands and becomes less dense. The trick is to find the middle ground and match the right size intercooler to the amount of psi you are running. But that's a lot of math that you have to do. It's really not that hard though.