AutoWeek Review of the Mazda3

[rktktpaul]

Just received my latest issue of AutoWeek, and they have a review of the new Mazda3 published. Gave it a big thumbs up, especially over the other Volvo/Ford models that are sharing the same platform. Said the design engineers got a big s%#t-eating grin when asked how much more power the platform can handle.

They say they especially like the 5-door with the 2.3L. Love my P5, but 2.3L . . . hmmm?

[3forme]

Did they mention anything about the price range.

[rktktpaul]

Nothing firm, but they're saying that its going to be in-line with the Civic - $13k to $21k. AutoWeek has the review up on their website - www.autoweek.com

[redrims]

http://msprotege.com/vbb230/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33264

[rktktpaul]

Sorry - totally missed the thread!

[3forme]

I would take a guess accrding to those prices HID and nav won't make it to the US.

[brucelee]

so is it unanimous by auto reviewers that the 3 is indeed a good successor to the p5? would be worth thinking about trading in for it? i just dont want to get a worse engine...worse in the sense of ford possibly making it or something crapola like that

[mcstark]

bruce...actually the new Focus PZEV engine is quite nice...a lot quieter and way more mid-range than the old Zetec motor. I almost got one...but wanted something different (had a Focus before)...and sportier.

Specs on the PZEV: 2.3 liter 145 HP & 149lb.ft of torque.

Back on topic....I'm not crazy about the styling of the new 3. Looks too much like a Volvo...very happy with my P5, although some more power would be nice. But in the words of Car & Driver: there isn't a car built that wouldn't be better with more power. ;)

[787B]

The Mazda3 engines are Mazda, through and through... Mazda's the small 4-cylinder lead for Ford and the 2.0L & 2.3L are the first U.S. market manifestations of this responsibility.

And, the HID and Navigation system ARE available for 2004... Pricing still not set, though it's guessed that pricing will not extend much past $21K for fully loaded car...

The 2.3L is 160hp, not 145hp...

[3forme]

Holy Sh!t. 21k for a car with HIDs and nav. Does that include the auto tranny. My girl friend will also be drving the car.

[rktktpaul]

I'm with Mark on the looks of the 3. Leaving the office last night, thought I saw a 3 on the street; turned out to be a Kia! Seems like there are just too many similarities between makes lately. But when you see a Protege, you can't mistake it.

[787B]

A Kia?... You've got to be kidding...

All I can say is that, given that few have actually seen one in the metal, it's a bit premature to start saying that it looks too much like a Kia (or anything else, for that matter). Cars don't necessarily photograph well; It takes seeing them up close, getting a feel for scale/ proportion, the subtlety of form and, finally, seeing them actually moving (how they change direction and with the reflections moving across the car's painted surfaces) to really do them justice. A number of my cohorts, despite their professional background, were somewhat underwhelmed by the RX8 at auto shows, until they saw it on the street, moving under it's own power. Now, we're in agreement that this is a stunning car...

I am a car designer by training. It's my job to do something that isn't just a static sculpture; I don't work for Mazda but have a soft-spot for it... They're a really strong "Design" company, one that many in my field consider to be the strongest Japanese company.

In the metal, it's really substantial looking... wider and longer than the P5, with a much more aggressive presence than anything else in the segment (yet, still, very sophisticated and not immature). This is no Kia.

[pro5foote]

I think I would wait for 05 and that all wheel drive system. Give them a year or two to work out the bugs and perfect the design, add all wheel drive and I'm in!!

[rktktpaul]

Originally posted by 787B
A Kia?... You've got to be kidding...



Nope, I wish I was. For a split second, I thought that Kia was a 3.

I've owned Mazdas for over ten years. The styling coming out of the design studios in Japan and California has IMO been the best I've ever seen (what I wouldn't give for a third gen RX-7). I still feel that my 92 Miata was as crisp and classic on the day I sold it as it was the day I bought it. Unfortunately, 1 wife + 3 boys does not equal to 2 seats. The P5 was my compromise to parting with my dear "Miazda" as it was known to the boys; atleast I still find myself getting a big grin getting behind the wheel of the P5, and now I can all three boys a thrill at the same time.

Having said that, I have of late found it difficult to tell the difference between various makes. I remember a time that I could identify every car on the road from the headlights in my rearview mirror. I can't do that any longer for the most part.

I also think that with individual auto makers becoming fewer and fewer, the several big conglomerates now controlling most of the marquees will begin strongly controlling design cues to maximize cross branding of platforms and interchangeable parts. I feel this has been shown with what GM has done with SAAB.

While I can appreciate the business and engineering advantages of the Mazda3 sharing R&D and probably some production costs with Ford and Volvo, I can't help but feel that in a way its akin to the old argument of "Is my Olds Cutlass really a Chevy Monte Carlo with a different front clip?". I am concerned that Mazda will lose its individuality that has made it uniquely recognizable to the public.

My God, I'm becoming a cynic . . .

[787B]

I can appreciate cynicism about any car that is touted as being a basis for so many different brands/ models. The Mazda6, by the way, is touted as the basis for so many different FoMoCo vehicles, from the 6 itself to Taurus replacement to Cross-Over Utility Vehicle to Minivan back to Luxury branded vehicles that it might be easy to question, without seeing it or driving it, whether or not the 6 is really true to it's roots and what a Mazda- diehard might want from a Mazda mid-size sedan.

Thankfully, we know that it's actually a really stunning entry in this segment (at least, to drive) and the fact that it'll shortly be available in this market with 5 doors, wagons and, apparently, AWD should be taken as a sign that Mazda isn't going to go the way of a homogenized version of it's old self. Long after many thought the rotary was dead, we see it, not only return but, do so in a suicide-door 4-place example of real innovation, the RX8.

Like I said, I'm a Mazda fan from long ago... I stand by my position that cars can only really be judged after they've been released and show up on the road... I backed out of a P5 after seeing the 3s 5-door in the metal and, trust me, as much as I think the photos portray a sporty 5-dr, in the metal, the car looks even better... really substantial... and I haven't even seen it moving or outdoors, yet.

Mazda's biggest problem, frankly, is in getting the word out to the mass market... against Accord or Camry (or even Altima), for example, the 6 has been woefully undermarketed. They spent a lot of money but, as much as I think they were right in positioning it as a dynamic sports sedan, the ads hardly showed the car other than spinning a 6 in the sand and didn't do justice in selling a really compelling value story (comprehensively equipped with for example, the only standard s/w audio controls in the segment) or the craftsmanship story (the interior materials are way better than any other Tier 2 competitor in the segment and, in some instances, better than most Tier 1s... the Altima, by comparison, is an '80s GM or Korean product) or, even, a compelling style story. There wasn't a really strong whole vehicle shot that wasn't uncompromised by lurid power slides. I love performance but, for the mainstream buyers out there, I can't imagine anybody walking away from these ads with any clear image of the product other than the lurid power slides... You need more to sell against Camry (despite the fact that they're trying to position Camry as more "fun") and Accord, especially with a new model nameplate (6 replacing 626 and 3 replacing Protege).

Their website, on the contrary, is one of the best for getting the story (including the advanced stuff, like on the 3)... alot better than Honda, for example, but (then again) they probably don't need to do much, anyway...

I think with 3, they can afford to be a bit more "fun" but their work is still cut out for them in making sure people know what the product is and how it fits or compares with the Civics, Corollas and Jettas in the world... I know Jetta is more expensive, but the 3 could sell to the same buyer, albeit with a better price/value story.

A long post, I know, and for that I apologize, but part of the reason I do what I do is because these products stimulate this kind of discourse...

[Captain KRM P5]

2004 Mazda3
Home of the Three: Mazda follows a much-loved 6 and 8 with another impressive number


By MATT DAVIS



WE DON’T GO AROUND jinxing good things, but most or all of Mazda’s sales goals it set at the launch of the Mazda 6 last year are being met or exceeded. This is good, because for years the “eccentric underdog” came up a tad short on product and performance. No more.

Mazda’s share of the North American car market has jumped from 1.4 percent in 2002 to 1.8 percent today thanks to the “6 effect.”


2004 MAZDA3 FRANKFURT SHOW PHOTO GALLERY



Would it be crazy to say that once: a) all Mazda 6 variations are on the American market; b) RX-8 horsepower and oil-burning furors calm, and; c) both the five-door and four-door 3 go on sale in the first week of December, market share could reach the 2.5 percent mark?


2004 MAZDA 3
ON SALE: December
BASE PRICE: $13,000 (est.)
POWERTRAIN: 2.0-liter, 148-hp, 135-lb-ft I4; fwd, five-speed manual
CURB WEIGHT: 3050 pounds (mfr.)
0-60 MPH: 8.5 seconds (est.)



Thanks to the Mazda-Ford-Volvo mix (in which everyone is giving and taking freely enough), we’re getting more and better Mazdas, Fords and Volvos—with less waiting—around the world. Our first drive of the 3 reveals a car some Americans will choose over a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla—Mazda’s two practical target models.

We say practical because in the emotive/styling sense—the impractical, if you will—the Mazda 3 has been influenced by some hot Latino blood straight out of Latium and Gaul. Hideki Suzuki, Mazda’s chief designer in charge of the 3, admits, “We used the Civic and Corolla as examples of important global cars, but we used the Alfa Romeo 147 and Peugeot 307 as examples of beautiful execution within the C segment.” This shows particularly in the five-door when in profile.

Mazda 3 is the first truly global, for-sale car to use the Ford corporate C1 platform. (The not-for-U.S.-sale Ford Focus C-Max MPV, also launched at Frankfurt, is technically the first overall.) We also saw the final version of the C1-based latest Volvo S40 at Frankfurt. Meantime, the all-important second-generation Ford Focus will make its massive entrance on the C1 at the 2004 Geneva show.



The basic underpinnings between all these cars is the same making it possible to build any one or all of them in any factory around the world. All powertrains and body panels are unique to each model, with the Mazda 3 being the sportiest stock setup of the lot.

Engines for North America include a 148-hp version of the 2.0-liter and the 160-hp 2.3-liter four used in the Mazda 6 (the 2.0-liter in non-N.A. markets). We drove a four-door with the 2.3-liter and a five-door with the 2.0, both with the five-speed manual. By the end of 200 or so miles, we knew we’d take a five-door 2.3-liter S (i.e. Sport Appearance Package) with five-speed and 17-inch tires. The four-door, though it goes well, is a less exciting design than the very cool five-door; the S package and upgraded wheels make this practical hatch a segment leader in the looks department. With an H-point nearly two inches higher than on the Protegé it replaces, sightlines are extremely good. The interior is bigger in every dimension for both passengers and cargo. The only gaffe we noted inside is foot room for the rear passengers that is cut off at the heels by a required crossmember.


On the other hand, this makes body rigidity 40 percent greater than on the Protegé.

Steering and handling are a notch above any other standard model in this category. The 3 is a driver’s car, and will be scooped up by the aftermarket and general driving enthusiasts. Mazda engineers grin when they say this chassis can take “a lot more horsepower.” The multilink rear suspension configuration is adopted from the Mazda 6 as well—which in turn borrowed it from the Focus—and its firm damper settings and wide stance make for a relatively wallow-free drive. We would have liked greater available front suspension travel, as we bottomed out a few times in both cars in situations where we were not expecting anything of the sort.

For Mazda, this is the most important car in every market in its product offensive. Globally, the compact segment is the single largest segment, with 2.4 million cars sold per year in North America alone. Mazda plans call for a three-door, wagon and convertible 3, and MazdaSpeed, MPS and all-wheel-drive versions available by the end of calendar year 2005.



All of our 3s will be shipped from the company’s Hofu, Japan, factory not far from Hiroshima. The North American sales goal is 70,000 Mazda 3s annually. One-third of these will be five-doors, the other two-thirds will get a trunk; 30 percent will be fitted with the standard five-speed manual, 70 percent the optional four-speed automatic—both from the Mazda 6 bin. Prices have not been announced, but should be in line with Honda Civic. Think $13,000 to $21,000.

[787B]

Some press release material on the engine family... from the 6 press materials.

"The newly developed engines are all aluminum, in-line 4-cylinder gasoline engines, with 1.8-liter, 2.0-liter, and 2.3-liter engine displacements."

"A ceremony was held at the plant to celebrate the start of production of the new engine. In his speech, Mazda Representative Director and Executive Vice President Hisakazu Imaki commented, "This newly developed MZR engine was developed with Mazda taking the lead role, being designated as the 'Center of Excellence' in the Ford Group for its highly recognized engineering. This plant that will produce the new engines, by incorporating various ideas of everyone, has realized high quality and high efficiency, and is now the factory attracting the most attention in the Ford group. I would like you to all take pride in this plant, and let's make the next-generation products that these engines will be used in a success."
The new I4 engines realize superb performance due to improved torque and increased output, have excellent fuel economy and clean emissions, and perform quietly with little vibration. The engines will be used in the Atenza and other following next generation products.

* Large-size I4 engine (1.8L, 2.0L, 2.3L) developed at Mazda as a Ford Global "Center of Excellence". In addition to the large-size I4, the MZR engine family includes the small-size I4 engine (1.3L, 1.5L) and a diesel engine, which were newly developed completely at Mazda. "

"A trial run of the new engine production was held starting from last October. This plant has introduced the "Cosworth casting process," which is also used for the peak performance F1 auto-racing engine. This casting process technology has been provided by Ford and Cosworth from England, and then matured and innovated by Mazda-specific technology. Through this, the mass production of quality, lightweight, and compact engines has been attained, and an epoch-making production process, producing at a lower cost than cast iron engines, realized."

"The new engines, in addition to being used in future Mazda products, will also be used by the Ford Group in approximately 2 million units, of which Mazda will produce around 425,000 units, expected to be produced within the next several years. The production base in the Ford Group consists of a total of four plants: the Mazda plant here in Japan, and Ford plants in the U.S., Mexico, and Spain. Production at the United States and the Mexico plants began from the second half of 2000. Mazda has positioned this engine as the cutting edge, global core engine in the Ford Group, and will continue to foster this technology."

Also, if the 3 is built in Hofu 2 (versus Hofu 1), then it's built in the newest Mazda plant, one that was set up for Amati production (Mazda's still-born Lexus competitor and acknowledged, at the time, as one of the most advanced production facilities in the world)...

[wongpres]

Originally posted by 787B
Also, if the 3 is built in Hofu 2 (versus Hofu 1), then it's built in the newest Mazda plant, one that was set up for Amati production (Mazda's still-born Lexus competitor and acknowledged, at the time, as one of the most advanced production facilities in the world)...

The Mazda3 (both sedan and hatch), is assembled in Hofu 1. The plant may be 10 years older than Hofu 2, but still an excellent plant.

[nate0123]

Originally posted by rktktpaul
I'm with Mark on the looks of the 3. Leaving the office last night, thought I saw a 3 on the street; turned out to be a Kia! Seems like there are just too many similarities between makes lately.That's nothing. I saw a Ferrari the other day, and for a second I thought it was a Tiburon. Damn Hyundai copycats.

[mcstark]

I'll wait until I see it "in the flesh," but I agree that cars are starting to look too similar. However, I couldn't help but look back twice at my black P5 as I walked into work this morning. I just love the way it looks.

I was quite interested in automobile design when I was pondering which college to go to. Unfortunately I never pursued it. So kudos to you for getting in to an exciting industry! Just a question, froma design perspective what's with the move to "integrated" audio systems -- other than killing the aftermarket? Like in the new 3.

[REMillers]

I like everything on the 3 expect that rear side window. It is to small and angular for my taste, but nice if they kept the P5s two window system back there.

[rktktpaul]

Originally posted by 787B
I stand by my position that cars can only really be judged after they've been released and show up on the road...

I really appreciate your candor on this subject. Admittedly, I am finding that I am drawing judgement on a car that I have never seen in "metal", and without any real reference against other cars on the street. I guess that's part of the pitfall of joining a discussion - you wind up forming an opinion justified or not.

I also had the same revelation as your cohorts did regarding the RX-8; when MNAO sent out those e-mails announcing the release of the car, I was at first turned off by it. Now that I've actually seen it up close at the dealership, I'm starting to grow pretty fond of it.

[jjac28]

i wonder why mazda just didnt keep the p5 and just added a stronger engine....

why design a new car when the protege was such a huge success?

[wongpres]

Originally posted by jjac28
i wonder why mazda just didnt keep the p5 and just added a stronger engine....

why design a new car when the protege was such a huge success?

Because the 323/Familia (the overseas name for the N. American Pro/Pro5) has been out for 5 years and is selling very, very poorly.

The Pro5 only 'seems' new to N. America because it was introduced to the N. American market 3 years after it was introduced everywhere else in the world.

[jjac28]

Originally posted by wongpres
Because the 323/Familia (the overseas name for the N. American Pro/Pro5) has been out for 5 years and is selling very, very poorly.

The Pro5 only 'seems' new to N. America because it was introduced to the N. American market 3 years after it was introduced everywhere else in the world.


i thought the p5 was a new design just introduced into the market :wtf:

so mazda kept such a good car away from us...We have to shoot the mazda management!

but why wouldnt it sell well overseas?

[wongpres]

Originally posted by jjac28
i thought the p5 was a new design just introduced into the market :wtf:

so mazda kept such a good car away from us...We have to shoot the mazda management!

but why wouldnt it sell well overseas?

The 323/Familia is selling poorly in both Europe and Japan because it's very outdated and it's competitors are much better (heck, even two years ago, I wouldn't get it if I were overseas, there are better alternatives).

Overseas, what is our Pro5 came out with the sedan, so this design has now reached it's 5-year lifespan (which is the typical lifespan of this type of car). The pre-refresh version of the familia wagon would have been laughed at in N. America, hence it was only introduced after the generation refresh in 2001 (though they called it a 2002 in N. America), and they significantly sportened up for N. America.

Your statement about shooting the Mazda management is 100% incorrect. In bringing in the Pro5, they single-handedly introduced this now hot segment to N. America. They did exactly the right thing at the right time.

Edit: Spelling mistake

[787B]

Right on... the P5 was a bold move on Mazda's part, especially given the fact that the Protege' had basically been a bit player in this market. Despite the fact that it was one of the best sellers in Mazda's line-up here, it didn't really have much of a distinctive position in the marketplace here until mid-way through it's cycle, about the time the P5 showed up.

Anybody remember that the Protege5 was first shown as a "concept" here in the U.S. as the Protege AllSport with AWD? I think it was the 99 Detroit Motor Show...

] http://www.autoworld.com/news/Mazda/ProtoWag.htm (http://)

If I'm not mistaken, the U.S.-market P5 wasn't even as sophisticated as the vehicles that it replaced in other markets. The previous Familia-based 5-door was the Lantis, available in other markets with a silky-smooth, high-revving 170hp 2.0L 24V V6 and with a sleek fastback exterior. Even the previous generation, the Astina, was a really cool car (given when it came out, in 1989) and probably could have been successful here. Kind of like a first generation Acura Integra 5-door (not the Quint Integra)...

Here's a link to a danish website dedicated to these cars (including the current car): [URL=http://]http://www.323f.dk/[/URL

[dugrant153]

What we need is some JDM stylin' and tunin' for our Mazdas.
The last P5 has got to be the coolest Protege (and even coolest car) of its generation (within it's economy class, of course).

What we be needin' is an AWD, 165-hp Mazda 3... for a base model. Then add a turbo model :)

[Captain KRM P5]

the new 3 is a tad heavier (i think 400 lbs.) than the old Protege :( will this obesity issue cancel the effect of any added horsepower?

[dmitrik4]

a little, but not much. the power/weight ratio is still better than the current Pro.

also, with more power, the car should be affected less by more people/cargo weight inside...more ponies to divvy up the work!

in reality, i think my ES has enough power to make it fun when i wanna and keep me out of trouble. what i'm looking forward to is a smoother, freer revving egine and better transmission. if my current powertrain were as slick was a honda's, it'd be just about perfect.