How-To: VTCS Removal and Porting [Archive]

flat_black

09-27-2004, 10:08 PM

All Protege's with the 2.0L FS-DE engine come with VTCS and VICS, except the MP3, which only had VICS. The 1.8L is still an unknown, and the 1.6L doesn't have even remotely the same manifold.

Japanese models of the FS engine don't have it, nor the ones in Australia, according to Twilight.

That's as far as I know. =)

If you take a picture of the top of your intake manifold, I can tell you for sure, or you can take a look, and see if you have two electrical connectors connected to solenoids on top of the manifold, to the left a little. One will be green, and one will be white. If you only have the white one, then you just have VICS; If you have the green one too, you have VTCS and VICS.

twilightprotege

09-27-2004, 10:16 PM

moved to how-to section

flat_black

09-27-2004, 10:27 PM

Thanks, man. =)

Black Majik MSP

09-27-2004, 10:33 PM

Maybe I didn't see it, but do you remember how long it took to do all of this?

flat_black

09-27-2004, 10:45 PM

Well... Lets see... Amount of time taken for my car, broken down, was:

Removal and reinstallation of manifold: 4 hours
Removal of VTCS butterflies: 15 minutes
Port/Polish/Plugging of manifold: 8 - 10 hours

I can't be sure, because the first time I ported and polished up the manifold, I was basically trying things out and evaluating the manifold. The new one (The one pictured in the FAQ) has taken me about 2 or 3 hours so far, and that includes all the time I spent taking pictures and measuring things, ad nausium.

The FAQ isn't 100 percent done yet, obviously, as past the starting port job I did, I still need to do and document the middle touch up, then the finishing/polishing, plus letting it soak for half a day at least in a mix of 50% Castrol Super Clean/50% Water, after washing it down with carb cleaner.

I would say, just going through, now, I could do a full port job on an intake manifold in about 6 to 8 hours, easily.

Rism

09-28-2004, 12:02 AM

Ill be doing this(rofl)

kasmankk

09-28-2004, 08:49 AM

yeap..my FS-DE doesn't have it. No wonder i broke the axle shaft (lol2)

All Protege's with the 2.0L FS-DE engine come with VTCS and VICS, except the MP3, which only had VICS. The 1.8L is still an unknown, and the 1.6L doesn't have even remotely the same manifold.

Japanese models of the FS engine don't have it, nor the ones in Australia, according to Twilight.

That's as far as I know. =)

If you take a picture of the top of your intake manifold, I can tell you for sure, or you can take a look, and see if you have two electrical connectors connected to solenoids on top of the manifold, to the left a little. One will be green, and one will be white. If you only have the white one, then you just have VICS; If you have the green one too, you have VTCS and VICS.

flat_black

09-28-2004, 09:39 AM

Dude, those were some amazing pictures. =) Did you end up ordering a new one?

Oh, and you still do have those little lips that can be ground down to keep the flow more laminar, too, but it seems like you've got more than enough project to deal with, what with the axle and all. ;)

flat_black

09-28-2004, 10:22 AM

Okay, guys. I reorganized it a little bit. I'm going to take all of today to work on finishing up the port job on this manifold, and then finishing up the how-to accordingly.

Pheonix

09-28-2004, 09:27 PM

very nice work, maybe i can stop by and see how the fs engine looks inside
i know the dealer would kill my warrenty if i messed something up doing this kind of mod.

flat_black

09-28-2004, 10:38 PM

Hehee... Yeah, warranty work on something like this... Eigh, not so much of a warranty anymore. =) If you want to come by and take a look at the manifold, then cool. Not like you're far away, anyway. ;)

Reffoxel

09-29-2004, 07:47 AM

Reffoxel

09-29-2004, 07:55 AM

Oh yeah, what did you do about the vacuum actuator. The electronic thingy that turns on or off the vacuum. Did you remove that also or just plug the vacuum line coming out of it.

flat_black

09-29-2004, 10:24 AM

Flat_black, is it really necessary to plug the holes between runners? The rod didn't have anything on it to seal the passage. Also if it is necessary, on boosted applications do you think it would be better to fuse weld the holes shut as opposed to using Metal epoxy?

Short version; No, and yes.

Long version; No, you don't need to plug the holes at all. It's purely to keep flow as laminar as possible. Yes, if you're able to weld the holes shut, by all means do so! Welding is always a better option than metal epoxy filler, but this stuff that I've used has stood up to the test of a 25psi Saab running every day with a manifold plugged with this stuff, so I'm fully confident in it's ability to hold boost.

As for the vacuum actuator solenoid, if you're not running a standalone or an MP3 ECU, removing the solenoid will trip an ECU. There's no reason to leave the vacuum actuated armature there, however, since there'll be nothing to open and close, and it'll just end up rattling a lot. So, just plug it up, and you should be all set.

Reffoxel

09-29-2004, 10:37 AM

Short version; No, and yes.

Long version; No, you don't need to plug the holes at all. It's purely to keep flow as laminar as possible. Yes, if you're able to weld the holes shut, by all means do so! Welding is always a better option than metal epoxy filler, but this stuff that I've used has stood up to the test of a 25psi Saab running every day with a manifold plugged with this stuff, so I'm fully confident in it's ability to hold boost.

As for the vacuum actuator solenoid, if you're not running a standalone or an MP3 ECU, removing the solenoid will trip an ECU. There's no reason to leave the vacuum actuated armature there, however, since there'll be nothing to open and close, and it'll just end up rattling a lot. So, just plug it up, and you should be all set.
Thanks :)

glitch32

09-29-2004, 05:50 PM

nice how-to... i'll be doin this real soon :+)

peepsalot

10-03-2004, 03:57 PM

Woohoo! I got a spare manifold ordered and will be porting it in no time.

Skurge

10-05-2004, 07:41 PM

now from what i can tell this will help the car breathe a lot better.....

my only questions are, how are the gains from it? noticable?

do you loose low end power in doing this?

flat_black

10-05-2004, 07:57 PM

Once you hit 4k, the difference is amazing... I didn't feel any loss in low end power, myself; In fact, I found myself slipping the tires a little more often when I put the new manifold on, as I had to adjust to the more rapid throttle response.

I may be offering this as a service, if anyone doesn't want to spend the time doing it on their own; Since it's just me, though, turnaround will probably be a week, but would include getting the part cleaned before and afterward.

323CiP5

10-06-2004, 12:56 AM

Wow....this must be a mod destined for me to do....i was just looking for this yesterday and poof it pops up today........any how to on removing the manifold yet?

Wiggles422

10-06-2004, 02:13 AM

Nice write up... maybe I can find a cheap manifold in a junkyard and play with it. Seems like the hardest/teadiest part would be getting all those connectors and vacuum lines off the intake manifold and remembering where to put them back on.

twilightprotege

10-06-2004, 02:44 AM

just take photo's :D

twilightprotege

10-06-2004, 02:49 AM

or number things...

when i'm working on the car i usually have a few icecream containers etc and i split nuts and bolts etc up into their own containers

also gives me an excuse to have more icecream :D hehe

flat_black

10-06-2004, 03:59 AM

I like Andrew's idea, what with the icecream and all. =) I used parts containers, and a peice of plywood, and separated all the parts I needed so I remembered where they went. There are three or four electrical connectors to remove, the throttle body itself, which includes four bolts, two coolant hoses, and one electrical plug, as well as the throttle cable.

There's seven bolts holding the intake manifold to the head, then two underneath for the support brace that you'll have to remove, and a handfull more to remove the fuel rail, and all the connector supports on the manifold. It's just a matter of taking your time, and working steadily. Oh, and a word of advice; Don't start the project at three in the morning like I did, if you don't have a garage. It's VERY difficult to see what you're doing at three in the morning. =) Trust me.

I get to do this again once I put the manifold on Bill's Mazdaspeed Protege, so I'll take pictures and write up an adjoining how-to on that, and throw it up on the site once I'm done. =)

Wiggles422

10-06-2004, 10:38 AM

Good idea with the ice cream. I have used milk jugs before to hold pushrods and valves. (just use an ice pick and poke some holes in the side of the milk jug). But since we don't have pushrods I guess that its only job now would be to hold valves. But (hopefully) that won't be anytime soon.
I usually have a roll of masking tape and a sharpie and number all the connections and vacuum lines, but that gets old really quick. But I've found that the slower you take it apart the faster you can put it back together :) (You can use that on the website) lol

Skurge

10-06-2004, 10:43 AM

how much are you thinking of charging for a port job?.....I might be up for this over the winter, seeing as my 03 will be garaged

flat_black

10-06-2004, 12:51 PM

Not sure. I was thinking $100~. Given that it takes 8ish hours of work, that's pretty darn cheap, I'm pretty sure, but it would be a good way to make a little money on the side. *nods*

Skurge

10-06-2004, 06:57 PM

i'll be up for that as soon as the snow hits and one 5 gets put away

flat_black

10-06-2004, 07:11 PM

Cool. *nods* Just let me know. =) It shouldn't be too long, now. ;) It was pretty cool this morning, already!

peepsalot

10-08-2004, 02:08 AM

I just received my spare manifold today! I needed it so I can work on it, and still have my car in commission. I'm going to be going slow with this over the next few days. Once I'm done, I'll swap them out and probably sell my original.

So did you try to match it exactly to the head also? I'm not sure if I can easily do this, without leaving my car in shambles for a long period of time. That is not an option for me.
Also, is it really necessary to thoroughly clean it before beginning, did you hot-tub it or whatever the hell they call it?

flat_black

10-08-2004, 06:23 AM

I tried to match it as closely as I could; The head comes up to about 1/16th of an inch from the edge of the gasket, so I started with the gasket, and worked outward 'till I had about that left. Mostly just from eyeballing it, really. You don't HAVE to clean it before hand, but you do have to clean it afterward, to get all of those metal shavings free. Boiling it is good, if you have a machine shop that can do that to parts nearby, or you can do it on your own if you have a big enough pot to put water and the part in. Hehe.

I did a chemical dip on mine afterward; Or more accuratly, I poured two gallons of Castrol Super Clean in a bucket with the manifold, and let it sit overnight, then flushed it out very thoroughly with a high-pressure hose afterward. The part was super clean after that, I can assure you!

Skurge

10-08-2004, 10:34 PM

now after you removed all of this and put it back togather....

CEL?

anything you had to adjust?

flat_black

10-08-2004, 11:14 PM

Nope! My car doesn't know what VTCS is. =) Because I have an MP3 ECU! But as long as you don't unplug the solenoid, it's fine. Just leave the plug for the solenoid, and plug up all of the vacuum ports on the solenoid with little caps. Just the one for VTCS, though.

No adjustments otherwise.

Skurge

10-08-2004, 11:15 PM

well I think i need to get a MP3 ECU now

flat_black

10-08-2004, 11:18 PM

Hell yes you do. =) It rocks. Hehe. Cheap on www.car-part.com!

Mach 3.5 Turbo

10-09-2004, 07:30 AM

Do you know if an MSP ECU will trip a CEL when doing this?

Edit: Removing the solenoid, not removing the VCTS.

flat_black

10-09-2004, 08:27 AM

Removing the solenoid will always trip a CEL if the car was originally equipped with VTCS. So yes, on an MSP, it will. It's a very simple matter to leave it plugged in, and just block the passages, though. =)

peepsalot

10-11-2004, 01:15 AM

Man, I tried to use some JB weld for the first time on those holes. It turned out to be a nightmare. That stuff is freaking difficult to work with. I put some in only two of the holes at first and it took forever to set, and I had to keep scooping it back into the holes as it oozed out. Then I took what was left in the tubes and mixed them and placed them under a little lamp I have. I check on the stuff under the lamp after less than an hour, and it was already too hard to use, meanwhile the stuff in my manifold is still goopy.(pissed)

Doh, I should have used quicksteel like in the How-To. I saw some stuff at the store that looked the same as quick steel, called fast steel or something, but it bothered me that it did not specify heat tolerances, so I didn't get it. I am a moron.

flat_black

10-11-2004, 12:17 PM

D'oh! Well, I'll have to make a page of notes for that then, so people know that JB Weld could be a pain.

peepsalot

10-11-2004, 12:22 PM

I dunno, I hear so many people rave about JB weld. I think it's probably good stuff if you're used to handling it, and you know what it takes to make it set.

Da 6

10-11-2004, 01:15 PM

damn wonder if it would do anything for my 2.3...

flat_black

10-11-2004, 02:43 PM

Dunno what the 2.3 has for an intake manifold. =) I'd like to take a look for sure. I think that the manifold is actually plastic on those, though... I remebmer hearing that, at least.

russwess

10-11-2004, 04:26 PM

wish someone had a before and after dyno... I think it would be a good idea for those who plan on offering this as a service to get dyno sheets to help aid in getting some job bids... Just a thought. But I wonder also if there may be a chance that the throttle body may could use a port and polish on the inside of it. Anyone got any info on this>????

Da 6

10-11-2004, 07:49 PM

I ment removal of vtcs and yes electronic welded plastic vilm intake

Skurge

10-12-2004, 02:49 PM

plastic???? wow...I wouldn't think you could make it out of plastic

peepsalot

10-12-2004, 03:12 PM

Yeah, I don't believe it either! I demand pics of this suppos'ed plastic manifold! Heh-heh.

Da 6

10-12-2004, 04:19 PM

wha? yeah plastic...many cars have plastic intakes....it withstands heat from the radiator but not a dremel :( I'll try and find picts of the 2.3 MZR VTCS VILM intake manifold.

p.s. the 2.3 in the 3s has a plastic valve cover...

Wiggles422

10-12-2004, 04:59 PM

The Camaros, Trans Ams, (LS1 engine) and Corvettes (LS6 engine) have had plastic intake manifolds. The most popular aftermarket one is also plastic and gives an extra 20hp and 15ft/lbs. (I have a lot of domestic friends)

http://www.tbyrne.com/ls1/30041.jpg

Reffoxel

10-12-2004, 05:05 PM

Even the Crown Vic has a plastic intake manifold ... and it's complete fertilizer. The bottom has a tendency to blowout and that's without any boost.

Da 6

10-12-2004, 06:13 PM

V6 6 has plastic one with the words FoMoCo in it

trbomp5

10-12-2004, 10:16 PM

subscribing

Da 6

10-13-2004, 03:43 AM

subscribing yeah same thing...kinda sorta

Nutari

10-13-2004, 04:14 AM

Suscribing and posting up my WTB announcment..

^_^ (wiggle)

peepsalot

10-23-2004, 05:15 PM

Ok guys, I'm in a doozy of a pickle here. I have removed vtcs and ported a spare intake manifold, and I'm trying to swap them out now. I removed everything needed to take the intake manifold off, except for this damn exhaust gas pipe. The one that with the 25mm nut on it. I am trying to use a crescent wrench using all my might, but it refuses to budge. There is no room for a breaker bar, and i have already round off some edges. I tried a little wd-409 on it, but it ain't helping. I can't even get to it very well becuase of all the damn coolant hoses right next to it. What the hell am I supposed to do.

Also, is it really necessary to remove the egr valve to take the manifold off? Seems it would be easier to remove after the manifold is off of the engine.

eting_pro5

10-23-2004, 06:51 PM

I'm a lil' confused on VTCS. Once the car is warmed up, is it always off? or is it when the car is warmed up and over 3K rpm that it shuts off?

flat_black

10-23-2004, 08:32 PM

You can unbolt the upper manifold from the lower, and just swap that... That isn't TOO hard, but sometimes it's a bitch to reach that EGR valve; You have to get it from underneath, if you do, since it's such a pain to get to!

Eting: VTCS is always off once the car is warmed up. At 3000 and up WHEN COLD, it closes more to promote more tumble.

eting_pro5

10-23-2004, 09:10 PM

Thanks flat_black, just one more question....

so basically disabling the VTCS isn't giving anyone any gains (except maybe before it's warmed up). People are getting their gains from porting, right???

peepsalot

10-23-2004, 09:19 PM

Eh, I got that eg pipe off eventually, guess the wd had to soak in a bit. I got my old manifold off, and I'm now working on putting the new one on. I just took a break for dinner, and I'm about to go at it again. Sucks that I have no daylight now though. I'm putting on outlaw engineering phenolic spacers while I'm at it, and doing the coolant bypass mod. Wish me luck. :D

Thanks flat_black, just one more question....

so basically disabling the VTCS isn't giving anyone any gains (except maybe before it's warmed up). People are getting their gains from porting, right???The vtcs valves are open when not in use, but they are still impeding airflow just by being there. The cross sectional area of an open valve in comparison to the entire hole there is significant. What is being done here is not just diabling VTCS, but removing the valves entirely. Some gains should be seen by only removing the valves, but of course porting will help even more.

flat_black

10-23-2004, 09:20 PM

They're most likely getting their gains from removing those things from the flow of the air... They take up a lot of room on thier own, even when open!

flat_black

10-23-2004, 09:21 PM

Good luck, peeps! =)

peepsalot

10-24-2004, 04:14 PM

Well, I got everything back together, and my car seems to be fucked. It starts, but idles incredibly rough, usually dies unless I keep giving it gas. I give a little gas to keep it from dying, and the rpms shoot to 3k for a while, then back to near zero and so on. One of the injectors came loose when I was removing the fuel rail, and some fuel leaked out of it. COuld there be a problem with air bublles in the fuel line?

I think I bit off more than I could chew with this mod.

flat_black

10-24-2004, 06:41 PM

Hmm... That's odd. Check to make sure the O-rings are in good shape on the injector that popped out, and make sure the manifold is tight to the head, with no leaks, and same with the throttle body. I would suggest just making sure there's no vac leaks, and that the EGR is still functioning.

peepsalot

10-24-2004, 06:55 PM

What is the best way to search for vac leaks? I used these paper gaskets that came with the phenolic spacers, should they require anything else to make the seal? Oil or adhesive or something?

flat_black

10-24-2004, 06:57 PM

323CiP5

10-24-2004, 07:00 PM

is there a how to remove the manifold yet?

twilightprotege

10-24-2004, 08:44 PM

yeah sounds like you have a vac leak. i remember when i put my head and manifold back together there was a slight leak around the throttle body and the car wouldnt run

peepsalot

10-24-2004, 08:50 PM

Ok, so you are saying to put the gasket sealant only on one side of each gasket? Does it matter which side? I'm thinking of attaching both to the phenloic spacers. I hope I didn't screw anything up too bad.

flat_black

10-24-2004, 08:52 PM

I would suggest both sides, but only use a tiny bit, a thin layer. I'm sure you didn't screw anything major up, dude. =) This stuff happens, especially the first time around for a lot of people. Just take a deep breath, and think through it, and you should have no issues finding and fixing the problem.

twilightprotege

10-24-2004, 10:25 PM

yeah just a tiny bit. you only need a very small amount.

peepsalot

10-25-2004, 11:17 PM

finally found some time to remove the manifold again. Well, I'm not sure if it happened during install or removal, but both of my paper gaskets are busted. The permatex stuff claims it can be used to replace gaskets. You think it would work if I just put some on each side of my insulating spacer? Those damn gaskets are break to easily.

twilightprotege

10-26-2004, 12:09 AM

that's exactly what happened to me - the paper gasket was dodgy. i just used a new gasket (coz i had a spare). the permatex should be ok

peepsalot

10-26-2004, 02:21 AM

Ok, after 3 days of monkey'ing with the car, the retarded mechanic funtime extraveganza is over. My car idles now, which is good enough for me. I am too tired to take it off the jackstands for a test run tonight. With any luck I'll be driving it to work tomorrow. Yay! Thanks flat_black and twilightprotege for helping me out. So tired, must sleep now.

twilightprotege

10-26-2004, 06:48 AM

glad it all works :D

flat_black

10-26-2004, 09:34 AM

Horay! =)

gino

10-26-2004, 01:16 PM

Eddie, Andrew--You guys run a dyno check before and after porting? Looks like you did, Andrew, but not sure if port job was combined with something else.

Have this on my "to do" list, but still would like to see dyno data. (yes)

twilightprotege

10-26-2004, 09:21 PM

yeah my port job was done at the same time as cams (2nd bottom dyno graph in my sig)

flat_black

10-26-2004, 09:23 PM

Nah, no dyno for me. No flowbench, either. =/

peepsalot

10-27-2004, 06:49 PM

I would suggest taking it off and putting some Permatex red all along either side of both of the gaskets.

If you can get the car to start and idle, get some carb cleaner, too, and to find vac leaks, spray the cleaner at key spots that might be leaking... If the car's rev's change or fluctuate at all, then you found your leak.
My car is running ok now, but acting a little strange when warming up. It seemed like the rpms took a dip when I press the gas in neutral today, and almost killed the engine, but only when warming up. I'm gonna try to check the vacuum with the carb cleaner spray method. Isn't engine degreaser the same kind stuff, or do I need carb cleaner specifically?

flat_black

10-27-2004, 06:56 PM

Carb cleaner is wholly different than degreaser. =) The warm-up issues may be the enrichment that the car is seeing.

twilightprotege

10-27-2004, 08:19 PM

try resetting the ecu if you havent already.

peepsalot

10-27-2004, 11:48 PM

The ecu was reset just this morning.

Will try to get some carb cleaner tomorrow and try that stuff out.

The strange thing is I notice none of this bogging after the car is wamred up. While it is warming, the slightest tap on the gas sends the rpms plummeting. Because of this I'm wondering if it has something to do with VTCS, like a vacuum leak after the solenoid?
Does the VTCS only switch when you are on the throttle?
I removed the actuator completely, and screwed a tight bolt onto the end of the hose, and used a hose clamp on it. It seemed like a good fit, but maybe the vacuum is getting past the threads of the bolt? What did you guys do with the hose? Leave it attached to the actuator?

If there are no other problems, and it is just enrichment like you suggest, is there something that I can do about this? No one else has mentioned this problem though, so I'm thinking something is a litttle screwy with my setup.

BTW, my warmup period seems much shorter now(at least twice as fast), which I'm guessing is attributed to the thermal spacers, and coolant bypass mod since there is less metal to heat up. Just an interesting side note.

Sorry for all the longwindedness and questions, I really appreciate the info and advice.

twilightprotege

10-28-2004, 04:41 AM

i think you have to still keep everything attached ???

peepsalot

10-28-2004, 09:00 AM

Well, the solenoid is still attached. I just figured I'd remove the actuator, so that loose rod wouldn't be clanking around. I don't really see much of a difference; the actuactor holds vacuum just like a capped hose. I guess the actuator "gives" a little bit, but I wouldn't think that would be enough difference to cause a problem. Maybe I'm wrong.

flat_black

10-28-2004, 11:56 AM

Look at the back of the intake manifold, where the VTCS and VICS actuators are. Just behind that. Take a vacuum cap, and cap off the arm of the T that goes to the left when looking at it from above. That should be the VTCS, and should offer vacuum directly to JUST the VICS, but leave the solenoid plugged in.

That should shorten the vac path up a bit, and maybe help your problems some.

peepsalot

10-31-2004, 01:27 AM

I capped the fittings properly now. Still having the same problems though. Could not find vacuum leaks with carb cleaner spray method. I'm starting a new thread on this problem of mine.

One last question: did you have to adjust your idle screw at all?
Mine idles at 750, but I wonder if the ECU is having to do something funky to get it there, that adjusting the idle screw would maybe do better.

flat_black

10-31-2004, 03:20 AM

I didn't have to adjust the idle at all, but I did anyway... It makes the car run smoother, and all, so it just seemed like a good idea while I had everything off.

Hmm. I did have the ported manifold when I had the original ECU, but I never EVER push my car at all before it's warmed up. I mean, never exceeding 3-3.5k, no hard acceleration, ad nausium, so it's viable that I never really came into a situatation that would cause me to notice the strange running when cold. You should ask BlkZoomZoom if he has the same issues, too; It might be due to the turbo, but I don't think so, honestly.

peepsalot

10-31-2004, 12:15 PM

I am the same way with my car. This is not from pushing the car hard while it is cold. This is me trying to get out of a parking space, just giving enough gas to engage the clutch.

bill harvey

11-20-2004, 04:31 PM

we swapped mine today well when i say we imean Flat-black swapped mine today what a great mod definately livens up the top end.

Greensleeper

12-11-2004, 12:36 PM

Hey, I just received my spare intake manifold! I was wondering if I had to ENDLARGE the port or just remove the step that the VTCS butterflies have. Thanks!

viVid

01-03-2005, 12:24 AM

Thanks for the how-to flat_black... did it this weekend and had no problems! Definitley helps 5k to redline...

flat_black

01-03-2005, 08:40 AM

No kidding, eh? =) That's awesome to hear! Did you take any pics, by any chance, Vivid?

On a side note, I have a second manifold available to anyone who wants to buy it. You can either do this yourself, or have me port it for an additional $100, if you want. Anyone interested? =)

viVid

01-03-2005, 09:54 AM

Sorry man, no pics... was kinda in a hurry (I painted my headlights at the same time, so the car was down for two days).

No kidding, eh? =) That's awesome to hear! Did you take any pics, by any chance, Vivid?

On a side note, I have a second manifold available to anyone who wants to buy it. You can either do this yourself, or have me port it for an additional $100, if you want. Anyone interested? =)

Kooldino

01-03-2005, 02:26 PM

One gripe: can you make the link color NOT blue on your page? it's hard to read the blue text on the black BG.

peepsalot

01-03-2005, 03:13 PM

One gripe: can you make the link color NOT blue on your page? it's hard to read the blue text on the black BG.
Would you like some cheese with that whine? (laugh)

cable43

01-03-2005, 03:26 PM

Would you like some cheese with that whine? (laugh)
one gripe: could you not spell wine with an "h", it's hard for me to comprehend!

flat_black

01-03-2005, 03:33 PM

Hehee... I guess I could... What color would you prefer?

flat_black

01-03-2005, 03:34 PM

cable: You have a PM, by the way. =)

jurgs01

01-03-2005, 04:00 PM

Hey flat black, did you port your head as well or just the intake mani?

flat_black

01-03-2005, 04:15 PM

Nope... The spare head portion is still in the works. =) I need to pick up a new head very soon to do work on, but I havn't found one for the right price that fits the bill, unfortunatly. =/

AznXstazy

06-04-2005, 01:11 PM

DiS

06-04-2005, 01:37 PM

so mp3 has vics? i cant take it off? or would it be better to keep it on? i see in you write up (good oen btw) that mp3s have vics only. i can tell the car cant pick up very good after 5k rpm any suggestion to make it faster? port polish mayb?

MP3's have ViCS only, no VTCS. Why would you want to remove ViCS? VTCS is the only thing that robs the hp in our engines. Not ViCS

flat_black

06-04-2005, 02:16 PM

Yep, you've got it right. The VICS is useful, and should be kept... The VTCS is the one to remove, but it doesn't exist if you have an MP3. The death in power above 5k is mostly, in my experience, due to the restrictive nature of the forward portion of the exhaust. The addition of a header, and exhaust work should open that up.

Other than that, cams allow for more power up high... Cam gears allow tuning of where the powerband sits, and headwork certainly never hurts the higher revving power, either. If you're going to stay N/A, don't make the head too cavernous, as that will hurt velocity and efficiency, which is what you need more than anything in regards to N/A setups.

AznXstazy

06-04-2005, 10:55 PM

Other than that, cams allow for more power up high... Cam gears allow tuning of where the powerband sits, and headwork certainly never hurts the higher revving power, either. If you're going to stay N/A, don't make the head too cavernous, as that will hurt velocity and efficiency, which is what you need more than anything in regards to N/A setups.

k i got you guys now. so i dont have that thing. i have vics which is good. so about the camshafts you think that mazdaspeed protege are any good? i was thinkin about just getin headers, because read somewhere that mp3 have decent exhaust system which they do. they have rb exhaust, but with cat. but i think the headers would be more restrictive than the exhaust. also if i get cam shafts do i need gears too?

cable43

06-05-2005, 08:09 AM

if you get cams yes get gears to tune your curve
msp stock cams are the same as yours (i believe)

flat_black

06-05-2005, 02:54 PM

Yes, cam gears are good to tune the cams to get the most out of them.

Mazdaspeed cams come in a couple different variations. The cams from a Mazdaspeed Protege are the same as stock Protege 2.0L cams, but if you get the cams from a MPS, which stands for Mazda Performance Series, Familia 2.0L, those are more aggressive. The intake came is a Mazdaspeed part, I beleive, but the exhaust cam is just a J-Spec part, meaning it exists in all Japanese 2.0L.

They can be somewhat expensive, and they don't make as huge of a gain as regrinds, hardwelds, or custom cut billets, but they're easier, as they drop right in, and most likely, the shims won't be too far off. Always should check the clearance though, just to be sure.

DiS

06-05-2005, 10:28 PM

if you dont wanna go through hassle, gett j-spec intake/exhaust camshafts....but other than that, your best bet is custom grind camshafts
plus with j-spec cams you wont see big difference unless you got some other mods like CAI/SRI, header, exhaust, or even F/I

SOSPEED

06-09-2005, 04:42 PM

I was talking to my brother about your write up and said it would be a bad idea to use metal filler in your intake manifold. Over time, from the manifold heating and cooling , the filler may work its way loss.

flat_black

06-09-2005, 06:24 PM

I've had this done for 35,000 miles, and just pulled my intake manifold last weekend to check an issue with the head, and it was as solid, perhaps even more, than when I started.

Protege_Speed

06-09-2005, 11:43 PM

Don't know if this has been asked before but is there a way to keep the VTCS always open without having to remove the intake manifold. I know you won't gain as much power if you don't completely remove it but maybe a little extra power. I'd like to remove them and port the manifold later but I really don't have the time right now and another car to use. You think if you can just keep it open that might help a little?

TiGrayMsp716

06-10-2005, 01:11 AM

Does the MP3 manni have VTCS? I'm to lazy to have it removed I rather find one that doesn't have it that would also happened be a direct fit.

flat_black

06-10-2005, 06:44 AM

Protege_Speed: No, the VTCS is open all the time after the car is warmed up; The only thing you'd do by keeping it open all the time is slightly hurt the cold start drivability until the car warmed up a little.

TiGrayMSP: The Japanese/Australian manifold had no VTCS, and neither did the MP3. They both fit directly onto the MSP.

SOSPEED

06-10-2005, 08:55 AM

I've had this done for 35,000 miles, and just pulled my intake manifold last weekend to check an issue with the head, and it was as solid, perhaps even more, than when I started.

Maybe so but i dont want to take any chances. I am taking it to some one to have the holes welded shut.

Protege_Speed

06-10-2005, 09:10 AM

I guess I misunderstood your write-up. You said, "The VTCS system turns off after the car has reached a designated temperature, and doesn't close the tumble valves completely until 3000rpm, anyway." I thought you meant they get closed at around 3000rpm but actually they are open. Is that right?

Protege_Speed: No, the VTCS is open all the time after the car is warmed up; The only thing you'd do by keeping it open all the time is slightly hurt the cold start drivability until the car warmed up a little.

DiS

06-10-2005, 03:06 PM

Paul

06-10-2005, 03:09 PM

does anyone have a pic of what the vtcs looks like?

flat_black

06-11-2005, 05:55 AM

I have a picture, somewhere. Let me take a look around, and I'll post it shortly.

At any rate, Protege_Speed, I'll clarify on my statement:

The VTCS remains partially open most of the time when the car is cold... As you get on the throttle while it's cold, at 3000 RPM is when it is closed the furthest, overall. After it's warm, the VTCS just stays completely open.

DiS

06-12-2005, 02:09 AM

After it's warm, the VTCS just stays completely open.

its not completely open. Completely open would be exactly 90 degrees opposite to the closed position (like a right angle) which in this case is not. It still fully open but its open to about 70/80 degrees, which still kinda blocks the air and the air flow is not as perfect as if the butterflies would be fully open (90 degrees)

Definetly worth of removing the whole VTCS setup.

flat_black

06-12-2005, 06:32 AM

Fully open, as in as far as it CAN be open, then. =) But most definitly, it is worth removing. Otherwise I wouldn't have written this how-to. ;)

DiS

06-12-2005, 12:09 PM

Fully open, as in as far as it CAN be open, then. =) But most definitly, it is worth removing. Otherwise I wouldn't have written this how-to. ;)

hehe flat_black! YOU'RE the man! This is definetly one of my priorities within next few months (thumb)

Protege_Speed

06-12-2005, 01:04 PM

I get it. So it doesn't open all the way. It's still at an angle. Sounds like I am going to have to do this mod next.

DiS

06-12-2005, 01:11 PM

well, it open all the way, but that all the way is not full 90 degrees from the original shut position (thumb)

DeadAir

06-29-2005, 10:18 AM

Hey, folks. I was going to originally post this in N/A Tech, but this benefits both forced induction folks as well as the N/A crowd. Rather than crowd a thread with this information, I wrote it into a website, and you can take a peek at it there:

http://flatblack.somethingsomething.org/p5/porting/

Tell me what you all think!

I have a suggestion for the write-up: Change the links from dark blue to something lighter, like green or even a lighter blue... you're killing my eyes!

Otherwise, nice job, and thanks for taking the time to write it up!

flat_black

06-29-2005, 10:38 AM

Hehee. I was trying to make a decision on a colour scheme, but I got lazy somewhere, and stoped messing with it. Maybe I'll change the page colors entirely.

peepsalot

06-29-2005, 11:02 AM

Hey, I separated my IM a couple times. I couldn't find the torque specs for the bolts that hold the two halves together. I tightened it a bunch once, and I think I flattened that metal gasket a bit. I'm wondering if it needs replacing. It sucks beause I just spent a day putting in new papers gaskets between the head and IM. I'd rather not replace another gasket and find out that's not the problem either.

I have had a really bad idle for god only knows how long now. Is there any way to pinpoint vacuum leaks? I tried it with spraying carb cleaner all around, but that didn't seem to work.

flat_black

06-29-2005, 11:19 AM

Yeah, that's usually what I suggest is spraying carb cleaner around all the possible places; Injectors, intake manifold mating points, throttle body, and so on. With the car running of course, so you can hear any burps in idle.

Protege_Speed

06-29-2005, 02:02 PM

SIBalla23

06-29-2005, 02:32 PM

Great write up protege speed.

carmaniac

06-29-2005, 02:43 PM

flat_black, I put this together for myself to make it easier for me when I go to actually do this mod. I thought I'd attach it here and maybe you can put on your site if you like. I hope you don't mind.

excellent, I was thinking of doing something similar so I wouldn't have to bring my laptop with me to work on it.

good job!!!

flat_black

06-29-2005, 02:45 PM

Oh, very nice. =) Thank you, Protege Speed! Consider it stolen and posted, with a to-be-linked-to page. I'll make sure to give you credit. =)

Protege_Speed

06-29-2005, 02:55 PM

Thanks but you don't have to. We're all here to help each other out.
(drinks)
Oh, very nice. =) Thank you, Protege Speed! Consider it stolen and posted, with a to-be-linked-to page. I'll make sure to give you credit. =)

Protege_Speed

06-29-2005, 02:57 PM

Oh no, I didn't write it. I just copied flat_black site and put it in a file.Great write up protege speed.

i12drivemyMP5

07-21-2005, 09:07 PM

What about just removing the screws/butterflies and leave the actuator hooked up so no plugging necessary? Air flow should be improved & no annoying screws to fall into engine.

Little Beavis

07-22-2005, 03:56 AM

What about just removing the screws/butterflies and leave the actuator hooked up so no plugging necessary? Air flow should be improved & no annoying screws to fall into engine.

After removing the screws/butterflies, there is nothing that holds the shaft in place. So pull it out, grab a 1/8" npt tap and plug and you're done.

iluvmacs

09-29-2005, 04:08 PM

I just removed the VTCS. It's really not that hard thanks to the great writeup posted in this thread. It's a pain getting the IM out of the car with all the hoses in the back of the engine bay, but that's the worst part.

I portmatched using a template I put on the head. That way I didn't overport or underport. That took a lot of time because I have to wait for the air compressor to recharge.

The result, sounds better, accellerates a bit faster. I never did before/after accelleration runs, but I should have. I really like the throaty sound from 4000 to redline. There is a noticable (yet small) increase in power. The FS-DE still needs cams, but I'm sure that portmatched IM, header, and no VTCS will help when I do get cams (1 more year on warranty).

Just to let everyone know, I used quicksteel on all the holes. I cut off the bar the butterflies were on at the end, pushed it into the quicksteel and rotated it a bit. It looks like nothing ever happened. The rubber seal around the butterfly support bar was good enough before, should be better now. It wouldn't be easy, but I could thread the hole if I run into problems down the road.

flat_black

09-29-2005, 04:26 PM

I love the way my Protege sounds, now. =) So evil. I'm glad everything worked out for you!

And I concur, regarding the crazy hoses everywhere. Hehe.

DeadAir

09-29-2005, 08:43 PM

I portmatched using a template I put on the head. That way I didn't overport or underport. That took a lot of time because I have to wait for the air compressor to recharge.

Where did you find the template? What kind of air tool did you use?

TB coolant loop mod

Do what now? I Googled this and all I saw were Impreza instructions... same thing?

P-Funk!

09-30-2005, 12:33 PM

Question:
Why not just cut the VTCS actuator link flush with the inside of the head? Then just re-install the actuator. It would turn - but not protrude into the air stream...

Just quicker/easier than tapping a new bolt...

iluvmacs

10-02-2005, 09:00 AM

Where did you find the template? What kind of air tool did you use?

I put a piece of cardboard (could have used wood but would have taken longer) up on the head. I taped it in the middle and poked holes for the 2 studs in the head that the IM sits on. Then I poked holes around the port holes. That's basically it. You need to be carefull about getting crap into the head, and you need to use a knife or sandpaper (cleanup...) to get the cardboard just right. Then you just transfer that to the IM when you're porting.

I have a craftsman air die grinder.

Do what now? I Googled this and all I saw were Impreza instructions... same thing?

It's on this forum. If you take the IM off it's really really simple. Basically there is a coolant tube going to and from the throttle body. There's one that goes from one side of the TB to the other. All you have to do is match the to/from loops together, and then keep the one on the TB just on the TB. You use the existing rubber hoses and just isolate the two loops, keeping coolant away from the TB.

Question:
Why not just cut the VTCS actuator link flush with the inside of the head? Then just re-install the actuator. It would turn - but not protrude into the air stream...

Just quicker/easier than tapping a new bolt...

2 reasons. 1, when you make it flush you groove it like a valley to match the shape of the port. When the VTCS activates it will rotate it, and now it won't match the shape of the port. 2, the only thing that keeps it in place is the other parts of the rod going to the other cylinders. When you cut it off it basically floats in there. You can't really tell how far it or out it's going to sit. That's why I cut it halfway through and put quiksteel in the hole, that way the inside of the runner is always the same.

Lord_Zath

10-11-2005, 10:30 PM

hmm maybe I'll have to do this some time soon...

Protege2ner

10-12-2005, 06:08 PM

Okay I read and did a search...Does the Mazdaspeed Protege have this? Will it hurt the car or emissions in any way? Thanks

DiS

10-12-2005, 06:49 PM

Okay I read and did a search...Does the Mazdaspeed Protege have this? Will it hurt the car or emissions in any way? Thanks

Mazdaspeed protege and Protege MP3 do not have VTCS.
***edit***
my bad, Mazdaspeed Protege DOES have it.
The only protege that doesnt have VTCS is MP3

peepsalot

10-12-2005, 06:55 PM

Mazdaspeed protege and Protege MP3 do not have VTCS.
Incorrect. The Mazdaspeed protege DOES have VTCS. I personally removed mine.

The MP3 is the only one that does not(I can't confirm that personally, but have heard it from many sources).

It will hurt your emissions on a cold start, and your car will not be as efficient until the coolant gets up to temp.

flat_black

10-12-2005, 07:12 PM

Yes, the Mazdaspeed Protege does have VTCS, as mentioned above. The MP3 intake manifold won't have it (My manifold on my car right now is actually a ported MP3 manifold, since I have spares of nearly every damn part of this engine at this point.

- Eddie

zerocover

10-12-2005, 07:42 PM

Why a bolt to plug the hole in the IM? Couldnt I just JB weild it. (love the stuff!) It would save alot of effort in the whole tapping thing.

Definetly gonna do this as soon as I find a spare manifold to play with.

DiS

10-12-2005, 07:51 PM

Incorrect. The Mazdaspeed protege DOES have VTCS. I personally removed mine.

The MP3 is the only one that does not(I can't confirm that personally, but have heard it from many sources).

It will hurt your emissions on a cold start, and your car will not be as efficient until the coolant gets up to temp.

my bad, i was thinking ViCS for some reason, silly me. Thanks for correction. Post edited.

peepsalot

10-12-2005, 08:08 PM

my bad, i was thinking ViCS for some reason, silly me. Thanks for correction. Post edited.
We have VICS too :D

DiS

10-12-2005, 08:38 PM

We have VICS too :D
oh i know you do, hehe. Its just I was thinking in a complete opposite way that I couldnt understand how the fuck did i come to that conclusion myself, haha. Everyone needs to think stupid for like 5 minutes a day, hehe

flat_black

10-12-2005, 09:15 PM

Why a bolt to plug the hole in the IM? Couldnt I just JB weild it. (love the stuff!) It would save alot of effort in the whole tapping thing.

Definitely another option. I just like having a strong structural bond to work with, so the JB Weld is just to fill in the small/low spots.

DiS

10-13-2005, 04:11 PM

yea JB weld works wonders. My friend dropped one drop on the battery and for the love of his life still cant get that shit off, haha

jaredbzoom

10-26-2005, 07:34 PM

wheres the free hp for a MP3.....soon to be boosted

Yaggie1

11-24-2005, 11:11 PM

For those of you who have done the VTCS removal, did you use quiksteel or something else ? Where can you get quiksteel ? Do you have to order it online or does someone carry it ?

viVid

11-25-2005, 12:25 AM

I used QuickSteel and found it at my local auto parts store.

flat_black

11-25-2005, 12:35 AM

QuickSteel can be purchased at Autozone, Kragen, Pep Boys (sometimes), and most other large chains.

rednecks_r_us

11-25-2005, 12:38 AM

For those of you who have done the VTCS removal, did you use quiksteel or something else ? Where can you get quiksteel ? Do you have to order it online or does someone carry it ?

http://www.midwayautosupply.com/detailedproductdescription.asp?9621

or

http://www.aerostich.com/product.php?productid=17056&cat=349&page=1

Yaggie1

11-25-2005, 12:50 AM

Cool, I was hoping Autozone would have it. I tried to look on their website and it didn't show up in a search. Might have to run there tomorrow. Any reason you couldn't pass on the tapping of the hole and just quiksteel the piss out of the entire hole instead ?

QuickSteel can be purchased at Autozone, Kragen, Pep Boys (sometimes), and most other large chains.

flat_black

11-25-2005, 01:02 AM

Yeah, you could, but I felt like using a bolt, since it was really secure, and I had to use less of the quicksteel to smooth out the runners.

iluvmacs

11-25-2005, 12:34 PM

Any reason you couldn't pass on the tapping of the hole and just quiksteel the piss out of the entire hole instead ?

Stock was just the rod surrounded by a rubber disc. That's how I left it. I put some quicksteel on the inside, and put the rod and disc back the way they were.

I figure, it will look stock, and the quicksteel will be exposed to the exact same pressure environment on the outside as it will on the other ports.

I've had it done for a few months now. It was almost 0F degrees the night before I drove it and nothing came loose. I'm quite happy. Now I need an exhaust...

Ian_mp4

12-12-2005, 12:18 PM

what would happen if the holes were the rod was are not plugged and left open? will it mess up the performance it is supposed to give??

peepsalot

12-12-2005, 12:20 PM

You have to plug the one hole that leads to the outside air or you will have a massive vacuum leak and your car will not right right at all. As far as the inner holes, I don't think it will make a whole lot of diffrence. Might disrupt airflow slightly, but probably a negligible amount.

Ian_mp4

12-12-2005, 12:25 PM

Yeah...the hole that leads outside i pluged it...but since i did that mod my car feels slower, mostly in lower RPM and it take a lot more time to get to 6.5kRPMs...don't know...anyways i have to chek out because it turned on the CEL and when installing the IM i janked a sensor and dont know what kind of sensor it is...thanx anyways

peepsalot

12-12-2005, 12:32 PM

What do you mean you janked it, you broke it, removed it or what? What did it look like?
Anyways, yeah getting that code read should help diagnose the problem.
Is your VICS hooked back up and in working order? A while after doing my IM, I noticed a crack in the vacuum line leading to my VICS actuator. Without VICS, you lose a lot of lower end grunt. You could also have a vacuum leak at the mating surface of the IM if you weren't careful about tearing the crappy gaskets, or if it was not torqued down properly.

Yaggie1

12-12-2005, 01:35 PM

peepsalot

12-12-2005, 02:04 PM

It's a bitch. :p You will probably need a 3", 6", and 9" extension at least to get all the spots. Depending on your ability and toolset, you might want to set aside an entire weekend for it. Took me a day and a half of toiling. The EGR tube is actually the worst part IMO.

Ian_mp4

12-12-2005, 03:01 PM

Well just did the diagnostics and the code was P0325-Knock sensor 1 circuit malfunction...don't know WTF that means...can anyone tell me what that code means?

peepsalot

12-12-2005, 03:08 PM

Maybe you "janked" your knock sensor. I would guess you need a new one.
A search for that code on the forums lead me to:
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69655&page=3&pp=15&highlight=P0325

Might try PMing batmang if he ever got rid of that code.

Ian_mp4

12-12-2005, 03:32 PM

Read the thread and he got the same code as mine...i'm just gonna keep asking everyone to see what is the purpose of this sensor and if it affects the engine in someways....

iluvmacs

12-12-2005, 06:49 PM

How tough is it to get the IM off the car and back on ? I was in the process of doing the porting on my donor manifold and was looking at the holes on the bottom (under the VTCS) flange. It looks like the 2 on the outsides will be a BITCH. Please someone tell me it's not that hard to get to em.........

I got mine in and out in a half hour each way. Do yourself a favor and get the craftsman extension kit with 1,3,6, and I think 12" extensions with 1/8, 3/8, and 1/2 inch converters, and U-joints. That will make life a ton easier.

I took pictures just in case I forgot the vacuum stuff, but it's really not that hard to figure out.

Be careful with the fuel injectors. There's a bit of fuel left in them, they fall off easily, and they have O-rings or washers on them that will fall off too. Other than that, just get everything lose and spend some time wiggling it in or out.

Velocifero

12-22-2005, 10:12 AM

i am getting ready to start this mod, anybody feel like it wasn't worth it? Luckily I have an extra manifold to work with. Anybody know the temperature ranges inside the IM?

Great write up flat_black.

iluvmacs

12-22-2005, 12:52 PM

Get the recall done for the VICS screws first. If your car isn't a part of that recall, make sure you do something to the VICS screws so they don't end up in the combustion chamber.

Velocifero

12-22-2005, 01:10 PM

Get the recall done for the VICS screws first. If your car isn't a part of that recall, make sure you do something to the VICS screws so they don't end up in the combustion chamber.
not on the list, any remarks about the removal of the vtcs?

flat_black

12-22-2005, 01:22 PM

VICS screws are between the two halves of the manifold, and can be locktited. I did while it was out, but it wasn't a big deal. Easy stuff.

Velocifero

12-22-2005, 01:26 PM

VICS screws are between the two halves of the manifold, and can be locktited. I did while it was out, but it wasn't a big deal. Easy stuff.
thats my plan, so its definetely worth it to remove the vtcs? I warm my car up every morning as it is, so the cold shouldnt be too big a problem

flat_black

12-22-2005, 01:39 PM

Then it would definitely be worth it, in my oppinion. *nods* I'm perhaps a little biased, though. =)

Laser03pro

04-07-2006, 03:26 AM

Velocifero

04-07-2006, 08:57 AM

For the guys that have done this did you plug the holes on the inside also? I need to see how this is setup but why cant you just remove the screws and butter flys doesnt the actuator keep the rod in place?
you'll still have turbulance created by the rod and the holes, i haven't finnished p&p mine, I cut my rod off so that the actuator is still going to be in place, but from inside all the holes are filled and ground down, i need to finnish mine, I started awhile back and just had to put it on hold after spending a couple hours working on it. i recommend filling all the holes, its a little more work but if you want to get the best gain, go all the way, imo it wouldnt be worth it to remove the mainfold and hardware and not put it back in knowing you are gonna get the greatest results from what you did. Once I finnish mine and switch manifolds in the car, I'll still have an extra so if you are interested I could do the work and we could swap them through the mail, small cost.

Laser03pro

04-07-2006, 12:22 PM

Yeh thats my problem I cant have the car down for that long so I need another manifold. I'll PM you.

flat_black

04-07-2006, 01:52 PM

Yes, I wouldn't suggest just leaving the rod in there... As far as velocity is concerned, adding more edges and ridges would make flow/VE worse if you were to just remove the butterflies.

Laser03pro

04-08-2006, 05:43 PM

If any one has a extra manifold for sale let me know I want to do this I alrdy have a dremel and a intake porting kit from eastwood.

zentrandi

04-08-2006, 05:49 PM

If any one has a extra manifold for sale let me know I want to do this I alrdy have a dremel and a intake porting kit from eastwood.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=8052476168&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

Laser03pro

04-08-2006, 05:59 PM

Yeh I seen that 1.

zentrandi

04-08-2006, 07:22 PM

did you get your pipe yet?

Laser03pro

04-08-2006, 07:39 PM

Not yet I had talked to him tho there was a mix up he wasnt sure if I was billed. It should be here monday I hope I will send you a PM.

Kansei

04-10-2006, 12:31 PM

Yeah if anyone has spare intake manifolds laying around this would be a cool project. I have the MP3 ECU so there's really no reason for me to keep the VTCS valves around, and plus I'd like to loctite the VICS screws while I'm in there (my combustion chamber is a virgin still, and I'd like to keep it that way).

I just don't have the time to do it all at once with school, so I'd need a spare to do it with so that I can still drive to campus.

Laser03pro

04-10-2006, 12:40 PM

(my combustion chamber is a virgin still, and I'd like to keep it that way).

Yeh so is mine and I dont want a lil screw to bust the cherry.
(rofl)

Laser03pro

04-10-2006, 12:47 PM

What about a 626 manifold I think they are like the one on protegegarage.com no vics or vtcs.

Kansei

04-10-2006, 01:07 PM

What about a 626 manifold I think they are like the one on protegegarage.com no vics or vtcs.

Until I see a dyno chart saying that it has gains for NA setups I'm not interested... even though I plan on boosting or buying an MSP as soon as I have the cash.

Laser03pro

04-10-2006, 01:10 PM

Yeh I was kinda thinking of one cause of that reason and cause it cleans up the engine bay nicely.

zentrandi

04-10-2006, 01:29 PM

its also 350 with egr...

Yaggie1

04-10-2006, 01:49 PM

I bought a 2nd so I could port it and do the VTCS removal and the VICS loctite as well. I have yet to install it, but, once I get it done if you are interested maybe we could work something out if you want the stocker off my car ...........

Yeah if anyone has spare intake manifolds laying around this would be a cool project. I have the MP3 ECU so there's really no reason for me to keep the VTCS valves around, and plus I'd like to loctite the VICS screws while I'm in there (my combustion chamber is a virgin still, and I'd like to keep it that way).

I just don't have the time to do it all at once with school, so I'd need a spare to do it with so that I can still drive to campus.

ghettobubba2001

04-27-2006, 12:49 PM

ok i am removing the VTCS and the VICS and the EGR valve, anyone see any problems with this? I plan on blocking off the hole on the manifold and the hole on the intake mani, but i was wondering why not take them all off and get rid of that damn egr valve!

Laser03pro

04-27-2006, 01:13 PM

The problem is removing VICS you want to keep that.

ghettobubba2001

04-27-2006, 02:28 PM

why would i want to keep any sort of runner? the vics is for the egr i think.

Kansei

04-27-2006, 02:43 PM

yeah I'd just loctite the screws on the VICS butterfly valves. VTCS is the emissions thing, but IIRC VICS is the thing that chances which runners are used at high RPMs.

ghettobubba2001

04-27-2006, 02:46 PM

they're both for emissions..... The whole concept of the VICS/VTCS is to work together..... has anyone tried removing all of them to prove this?

Laser03pro

04-27-2006, 03:36 PM

why would i want to keep any sort of runner? the vics is for the egr i think.

Vics allows you to adjust between 2 different runner lenghts if you remove it you will lose alot of torque.

Laser03pro

04-27-2006, 03:37 PM

they're both for emissions..... The whole concept of the VICS/VTCS is to work together..... has anyone tried removing all of them to prove this?

VICS is not for emmissions vtcs is at startup and some1 with a msp had removed VICs and said they lost alot of power.

DiS

04-27-2006, 09:18 PM

Vics allows you to adjust between 2 different runner lenghts if you remove it you will lose alot of torque.

w3rd. If you remove ViCS and if you're N/A or low boosted Protege you'll lose alot of low end torque.....basically you'll be like a civic, lol.

ViCS is variable inertia charge system, which activates at 5200rpm, allowing more high end power by opening up the lower row of 4 runners. When closed it allows the whole amount of air at given time to flow only through only 1 row of runners giving you more low end torque.

Its highly not recommended to remove ViCS unless you're running some kind of HIGH boost with a single runner intake manifold

Kansei

04-27-2006, 11:18 PM

5200 RPMs, eh? That must explain the sound I hear right at that RPM when at WOT. The pitch suddenly change right about there and gets louder, which always reminded me of the Variable Intake System on my mom's 05 V6 Altima.. which sorta does the same thing but supposedly does it with having two intake paths.

I like VICS, I just don't like it's screws in my combustion chamber (ughdance)

I really need to pick up a spare intake manifold. Once I have some money saved up when I start my job in June, I'm definitely picking one up and either doing the work myself (living by myself in my apartment all summer 6+ hours from my friends will get quite boring I'm sure) or having a competant machine shop do port/polish on the manifold or something.

Laser03pro

04-27-2006, 11:46 PM

[quote=KanseiZM]

I like VICS, I just don't like it's screws in my combustion chamber (ughdance) quote]
They wont hurt any thing if they are tightened right with some lock-tite

Kansei

04-27-2006, 11:48 PM

[quote=KanseiZM]

I like VICS, I just don't like it's screws in my combustion chamber (ughdance) quote]
They wont hurt any thing if they are tightened right with some lock-tite

If I'm going to take off my intake manifold I'll be removing the VTCS (MP3 ECU doesn't recognize it anyway) so I need a spare because I can't be without my car for any amount of time :)

Laser03pro

04-28-2006, 02:45 PM

I started working on my extra intake today starting to look good I need to get some better bits tho.

Laser03pro

04-30-2006, 05:03 PM

Where do you guys buy the quick steel at and what model numbers are good to use on the craftsman or dremel grinding stones. I have a dremel so the craftsman ones will work also.

Yaggie1

05-02-2006, 08:43 AM

I got the quiksteel at Autozone. I don't remember which Dremel bits I used exactly. I know I used the coarse sanding drums more than I used an actual grinding stone bit. Seemed to work better for me. I also used the finishing abrasive buffs at the end. Gave it a nice smooth polished look.

Where do you guys buy the quick steel at and what model numbers are good to use on the craftsman or dremel grinding stones. I have a dremel so the craftsman ones will work also.

Laser03pro

05-02-2006, 10:39 AM

Yeh I was going to use the coarse sanding drums also I havnt got time to go at it again yet. I kind of want to clean it first before I use the quick steel so I know it sticks good.

flat_black

05-02-2006, 02:08 PM

Oh, yeah, hey... I got your PM, but I've been crazy busy lately, on and off.. The MP3 ecu I picked up was the B type, and they're all just revisions, and very minor. The timing/fuel map remained the same between all three.

And I get my dremel bits here, in bulk: http://www.widgetsupply.com/

Laser03pro

05-02-2006, 02:45 PM

Cool thanks man.

Laser03pro

05-02-2006, 02:53 PM

Which grinding stones did you use there is so many of them lol.

flat_black

05-02-2006, 04:54 PM

Yeah, I know... Hehee. Let me find my invoices and I'll drop the info in here.

mazda3Txboy

05-02-2006, 05:09 PM

mannn M.P.S.A

GBean

05-04-2006, 11:35 AM

Has anyone port-matched their head at the same time they do this?
Is it worth it?

iluvmacs

05-08-2006, 07:09 PM

I matched the intake and exhaust ports to the head. I didn't touch the head.

I'd like to think I noticed a difference but I can't prove anything. It sounded better for sure. I spent a lot of time grinding my headers but who knows if it's worth it. You should probably do it while things are apart anyways. I wouldn't go any bigger than the head, or modify the head.

Something you should do is smooth out all the intake and exhaust runners. Where the flange is welded or cast there's usually a lip you can feel. Grind that smooth. You may not notice a difference, but it's a good thing to do.

DarKrID3r

05-31-2006, 12:26 AM

hey guys i know that the website tells us the main points how to perform the job. but if someone could show me the engine and how to remove it. then what is the job to do exactly with pictures and details, and how everything is done, i would appreciate very much!!

thanks in advance

magnumP5

07-01-2006, 01:48 PM

I hate responding to a How-to thread but... For all you guy who used Quik Steel, how did it take to "set?" I filled the holes about 24 hours ago and some parts are still pretty soft. It's been kind of hot an humid hear lately and the IM has been sitting in the dark in the garage if that has anything to do with it...

Rac3rX

07-01-2006, 02:31 PM

flat_black

07-01-2006, 05:59 PM

Yeah, humidity doesn't help... The surface stays soft for a while, but you can still machine it down, and under that, it'll be harder. YMMV. =)

Black_Protege_5

07-01-2006, 07:56 PM

Bala

07-01-2006, 10:16 PM

Yea for me the quicksteel hardend in about 60 mins or less. It was really hard when I smoothed it out.

Remove the intake mani wasn't has hard as I thought it would be. I could remove it in like 45 mins now.

Now I know who to hit up for guidance (thumb)

iluvmacs

07-02-2006, 08:17 PM

For all you guy who used Quik Steel, how did it take to "set?"

Mine got hard in 10 minutes. I was worried that I wouldn't finish forming it in time. Very cold and very dry (winter in basement).

flat_black

07-02-2006, 10:17 PM

Yeah, you know? Now that I think about it, it seems to cure faster in the cold than it does in warm, even with both being low humidity.

Black_Protege_5

07-03-2006, 04:50 AM

Now I know who to hit up for guidance (thumb)

Yea anytime. I removed mine to make it easier to do the rear motormount. The Motor mount wasn't that much easier.

Bala

07-03-2006, 05:00 AM

The Motor mount wasn't that much easier.

:-/

Brian MP5T

07-03-2006, 05:03 AM

Sweet Jesus!

Black_Protege_5

07-03-2006, 05:06 AM

:-/

It was just cracking the bolts that are holding it to the firewall. After those 3 and removing that stupid plastic bracket everything is easy.

flat_black

07-03-2006, 12:30 PM

Yeah, you too, huh? I just could not get leverage on those three bolts, since they're tucked up under the rear of the firewall lip AND they needed a deep(er) socket. That was such a pain in the ass.

Black_Protege_5

07-03-2006, 05:09 PM

Yea not only that but the actual extention and rachet were flexing almost 15 degrees before adding enough tension to break them loose. I wonder what the torque are for those.

PlatinumMSP

07-31-2006, 02:44 AM

would doing this benefit my MSP? This seems like just a big N/A thing...

Black_Protege_5

07-31-2006, 02:57 AM

Oh it will benefit the msp more. More airflow means more power.

PlatinumMSP

07-31-2006, 02:57 AM

Oh it will benefit the msp more. More airflow means more power.

have you done this yet to your car?

Black_Protege_5

07-31-2006, 02:58 AM

Yea I have.

flat_black

07-31-2006, 06:32 PM

We did this on a number of turbocharged Protege's, with pretty sweet results.

PlatinumMSP

08-01-2006, 02:50 AM

We did this on a number of turbocharged Protege's, with pretty sweet results.

how much would you charge me and what would be the turn around time if I shipped it over to you to have it done? Will I throw a CEL if I do this? Do you know the approximate whp/wtq gain? Thanks bunch man.

flat_black

08-01-2006, 03:06 AM

You're in California, so shipping wouldn't be too long... I'll do it for $80, plus the cost of shipping and so on, I have no idea as of the gains, since I've never dynoed it on the MSP, but it certainly adds a smack in the ass after 4k RPM, you shouldn't throw a CEL, so long as both solenoids remain connected and........... That was the last question. =) I've done at least 15 of these manifolds, or manifolds like this, plus lots and lots of other parts, such as headwork and so on. And it takes me about a week to turn one around, but that's just due to my copious LACK of free time lately. It should only be about 3 hours of work, all said and done. Pretty cheap for a basic port job and butterfly removal, in my experience!

PlatinumMSP

08-01-2006, 03:11 AM

PlatinumMSP

08-01-2006, 03:16 AM

flat_black

08-01-2006, 03:48 AM

Sure, that would be fine with me. Hit me up in PM, and I'll give you my address, phone number, and so on. =)

PlatinumMSP

08-01-2006, 03:51 AM

one last question... is this going to make it a lot more difficult to pass emissions with?

flat_black

08-01-2006, 04:03 AM

Hmmm... I suppose that depends. If they or you warm the car up before they test it, then no. The system is disabled after the car either warms up, or passes 3k RPM when you have it, anyway. I'd have to say probably won't affect anything aside from possibly cold-start emissions, really.

Kansei

08-01-2006, 09:51 AM

yeah doesn't it just help the car get warmed up (and with that, the cats) faster? once warmed up it shouldn't be an issue.

Black_Protege_5

08-01-2006, 10:10 AM

Basically. All it really does is restrict a lot of airflow. On start up its not too different than before.But once it warms up and you hit the 5000k mark you can feel it. I won't say it pulls hard since its N/A but with turbo I am sure it will.

And yea I can help you remove it. Do you have an extra IM or you are just leaving your car there.

PlatinumMSP

08-01-2006, 08:25 PM

Black_Protege_5

08-01-2006, 09:32 PM

Not sure. I think so like in the late afternoon this sat.

magnumP5

08-07-2006, 05:41 AM

DarKrID3r

08-07-2006, 07:26 AM

magnumP5

08-07-2006, 07:46 AM

Seems like ur having an EGR problem

go there
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94788&highlight=rough

this should help :)

the problem is not caused by the porting, by having it ported u prolly became more cautious about ur car so thats maybe one factor why it has increased. maybe also increasing the air volume makes the egr stick more also.

anyways u should be able to fix it easely.
You're probably right about the being conscious about my car more but I'm not sure if it's an egr thing. The idle isn't rough or erratic which I thought were symptoms of egr problems. It's just like my idle is lower by 100-200 RPM than what it used to be. Like it used to idle between 500 and 700 RPM but now it's more like 300 and 500 but it is smooth - oscillates up and down like normal, just lower. I just figured I either had a small vacuum leak (which doesn't seem so likely since I don't stall) or just the larger amount of air getting in is somehow causing it. I think I'll just check all my bolts when the engine is heated up since I torqued everything down after the car was down for 6 hours. Either way, I'm not too worried until I start stalling out - I guess I'll find out tonight in rush hour traffic...

DarKrID3r

08-07-2006, 09:56 AM

allright let us know

Black_Protege_5

08-07-2006, 10:21 AM

Alright, I did it this weekend and I have a quick question for those who've also done this. Has anyone else notice an overall drop in idle RPM? My idle is by no means erratic, nor does my car stall out but the RPMs do drop low at times before the car seems to "catch itself" and bring the RPM back up to 500 or so. For example, after driving about 15 miles with the A/C on, etc. the idle would drop to the 200-300 RPM range or lower at idle. It felt like the car was going to stall but it would just magically fix itself and bump up the RPM. The car did the same thing with VTCS still in there but just not as low. Just wondering if anyone else has noticed anything like this. I may just try to retorque some bolts while it's warmed up as I guess heat expansion could be causing a small vaccum leak - although I figure if it were a vacuum leak I would be stalling out...

Ha yea. It happened to me at first. Check all of the lines and make sure there are no leaks. Mine was coming from the throttle body. If everything is fine try removing the Neg terminal to reset everything then when you start up the car turn on almost every electical item. Turn your air full blast, headlights and anything else that uses power for about 5 mins. What this will do is make your ecu learn to the point that when you have your headlights and everything it nows hows to proper distribute power so it won't effect your idle. Plus when everything is off your car will stay around a perfect 800rpm and with air and lights it will be around 700 instead of the 200-300 you are getting now. If you need help with anything just pm me and I can help you out.